HC Deb 05 March 1936 vol 309 cc1545-8
30 Dr. SALTER

asked the Home Secretary (1) whether, when work is undertaken for private firms in His Majesty's prisons, it is arranged for by written or oral contract;

(2) whether, in arriving at the charges made by his Department for work done for private traders by inmates of His Majesty's prisons, any general system of costings is used; and, if so, what factors are taken into account in deciding what are properly overhead charges on such work;

(3) when parts of an article are assembled in His Majesty's prisons for private firms, what method, if any, is used to determine the value of the work done; and whether the cost of such work done under ordinary industrial conditions is ascertained and taken into account when fixing the price to be charged?

Sir J. SIMON

As was explained in reply to a question which he asked on 24th February, only a very small amount of work is done in prisons for sale outside. The average annual receipts from this source represent only about 1 per cent. of the total work done, and care is always taken to avoid accepting work at a price which would undercut outside prices. Arrangements to undertake such work are made in writing. The price depends on market considerations and not on any system of costing.

Dr. SALTER

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that several firms have complained to different Members of Parliament that they are being undercut?

Sir J. SIMON

Naturally I should not be aware that they have complained to other Members of Parliament, but, if anyone has any information which he thinks should be examined at the home Office, I shall be glad to receive it.

33. Mr. GARDNER

asked the Home Secretary whether, when work for private firms is being done in His Majesty's prisons, inmates employed on such work are allotted tasks on account of any special aptitude, or for good conduct, or as a punishment?

Sir J. SIMON

In assigning prisoners to such work as is available regard is had to a prisoner's medical fitness and, so far as practicable, to any special aptitude that he may possess. Good or bad conduct is dealt with by the marks system and the disciplinary rules, and has no relation to the question of employment.

34. Mr. GARDNER

asked the Home Secretary the number of private firms for which work was done in His Majesty's prisons during 1933, 1934, and 1935, and any names of firms other than the three already stated?

Sir J. SIMON

As already stated, the aggregate amount of work done for private firms is almost negligible, and this aggregate is made up of a number of small orders. During 1935 work to the total value of about £1,700 was done for about 30 firms. I am informed that none of the three firms mentioned have in fact had contracts with the Prison Commissioners.

35. Mr. GARDNER

asked the Home Secretary when work for private traders is carried out in His Majesty's prisons, how decisions to take work are arrived at; whether advertisements for work are issued publicly or are circulated among a limited number of approved firms, or whether the use of prison labour is secured by favour; and, if by favour, in whose power the decision to give preference to any firm rests?

Sir J. SIMON

As already explained in answer to previous questions, the acceptance of work from private firms involves no favour, since it is an established principle to avoid taking work at a price which would undercut outside prices. No advertisements are issued. Applications are received from time to time and are considered when the volume of work available for Government Establishments is insufficient to keep the prisoners usefully employed.

36. Mr. GIBBINS

asked the Home Secretary the number of industrial processes in which inmates of His Majesty's prisons share in the productive work carried on by, and for, private firms?

Sir J. SIMON

A list of the trades carried on in prisons will be found in paragraph 48 of the report of the Committee on the Employment of Prisoners which was presented to Parliament in November, 1933. Nearly all this work is done for Government Departments hut amongst the small jobs done for private firms there has been a little firewood-chopping, mat-making, sack-making and a few other miscellaneous items of a similar character.

37. Mr. GIBBINS

asked the Home Secretary the gross income derived by his Department from work done by inmates of His Majesty's prisons for private firms for any 12 months to the last convenient date; and whether it is his intention to expand this service to manufacturers and traders?

Sir J. SIMON

During 1935 the gross receipts from work done for private firms amounted to £1,700. At the present time, when the prison population is comparatively low and sufficient orders are available from Government establishments, private orders are at a minimum.

38. Mr. GIBBINS

asked the Home Secretary whether, when work is being done for private firms in His Majesty's prisons, any method is employed for detecting alleged faulty work and tracing it to individual prisoners employed on such work; and whether, if any work held to be faulty is traced to a prisoner the prisoner's prison record is adversely affected by such work being traced to him?

Sir J. SIMON

The position of a prisoner is exactly the same whether he is employed on work which the prison authorities have undertaken for a private firm, or on any other work. In either case the prisoner works under the supervision of prison officers and deliberate misconduct or negligence would involve disciplinary action.

Mr. THORNE

Do they pay trade union rates?

Mr. LOGAN

If prisoners do faulty work, arc they discharged?

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