HC Deb 05 March 1936 vol 309 cc1574-81

Might I ask the Prime Minister what is the business for next week?


On Monday, Debate on Defence; Committee stage of the Unemployment (Northern Ireland Agreement) Bill. Tuesday.—Conclusion of the Debate on Defence; Third Reading of the Unemployment (Northern Ireland Agreement) Bill, and the Report stage of the Supplementary Estimates which were considered in Committee on 25th February.

Wednesday. — Private Members' Motions.

Thursday.—It is proposed to move Mr. Speaker out of the Chair on first going into Committee of Supply on the Army Estimates, 1936, and to consider Votes A, 1, 10, 11, 13, 14, 15 and the Ordnance Factories Vote in Committee. Also consideration of the Irish Free State (Special Duties) No. 1 Order.

Friday.—Private Members' Bills.

On any day, if there is time, other Orders may be taken.


Might I ask the Prime Minister in what way the Debate on Monday will take place, and whether there will be a Motion of not? Might I also call his attention to the Unemployment (Northern Ireland Agreement) Bill? I understand there was a statement in the House that that should be taken at an early hour and not after 11 o'clock, in view of its controversial nature?


It is the Committee stage that I have announced for Monday night, and I do not think there is anything especially controversial about that stage. Again, that is unfortunately one of the pieces of legislation that has to be got through against time.


How far are we going to-day? I did not know the right hon. Gentleman proposed to take the Unemployment (Northern Ireland Agreement) Bill Second Reading to-night. I also asked the right hon. Gentleman a question as to the course the Debate would take on Monday.


The Debate on Monday will be on a Motion which will be on the Paper to-morrow morning. The suspension of the Rule to-night is for the purpose of obtaining the Second Reading of the Unemployment (Northern Ireland Agreement) Bill. The Money Resolution on which the Bill is founded was taken a fortnight ago. We desire to take the Committee stage of the Consolidated Fund (No. 1) Bill, arid the Motion to approve the Additional Import Duties (No. 2) Order relating to upholstery. That is exempted business.


Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that the Unemployment (Northern Ireland) Agreement Bill is considered to be a very important Bill, and that there is great anxiety to discuss the Second Reading at an earlier hour than Eleven o'clock?


I wish it were possible, but I am afraid it is impossible. I understood that one or two hon. Members were interested in it, but I never regarded it as a controversial Bill.


Can the Prime Minister say when is it intended to announce the appointment of the Minister who is to be charged with the duties of Defence; and whether the announcement will be made before the commencement of the Debate on Monday?


An announcement will be made quite reasonably soon. I do not think it is likely to be made before the Debate. It may be made immediately after the Debate.


Is it not going to be made during the Debate? Surely, it will be made after the Debate starts, at any rate?


I think I must be the judge of that.


Surely the Prime Minister realises that it is essential that during the course of the Debate the House of Commons should be informed as to who this Minister will be?




Has the Prime Minister made up his mind about who is going to take over this new administration, as much as the Chancellor of the Exchequer has made up his mind about the finances of it?


Can the Prime Minister at least assure us that the new Minister will be a Member of this House?


I think the House might wait with patience until I fulfil what is my sole responsibility.


I wish to raise a point concerning the suspension of the 11 o'clock Rule, and I apologise, Mr. Speaker, for doing so without having given notice. To-day the Prime Minister is again moving the suspension of the 11 o'clock Rule. I wish to put it to you, Sir, that this Rule was, made by Members in order that the House should sit only until 11 o'clock. When that Rule was made, it was presumably made to suit not only the majority but also the minority in the House, so that Members would know within reason when they would get borne under the ordinary customs of the House. One has never objected to the suspension of the 11 o'clock Rule when occasion demanded, but I put it to you that the suspension of the Rule is not now merely a matter arising from time to time, but has become the normal custom and pays no regard to the fact that the Rule was originally adopted as some defence of minorities in this House. We have now reached the stage that, except on private Members' day, the 11o'clock Rule is always abrogated. I appeal to you, Mr. Speaker, as the defender of the rights of minorities. If the Government are going always to suspend the 11 o'clock Rule, I suggest that you ought to insist on refusal to accept the Motion, and throw on the Government the responsibility for putting down a Motion for alteration of the Standing Order, so that the House can debate it.


In this particular case I have no powers at all. The question whether the 11 o'clock Rule is to be suspended is one for the House to decide, and not for me.


Is not the repeated suspension of the 11 o'clock Rule a breaking of the Standing Order, which says that the House shall rise at 11 o'clock? Is not the Government's action tantamount to setting aside the original Standing Order, which says that the Rule shall be suspended only in exceptional circumstances?


Undoubtedly there is a, Standing Order which says that the House will rise at 11 o'clock, except in special circumstances, but the House has always had liberty to suspend the Standing Order. It is not a matter for me to decide.


In order to avoid the Divisions that take place every day, would it not be possible to suspend the 11 o'clock Rule on Monday for the whole of the week?

Motion made, and Question put, That this day, notwithstanding anything in Standing Order No. 14, Business other than the Business of Supply may be taken before Eleven of the Clock and that the Proceedings on Government Business be exempted, at this day's Sitting, from the provisions of the Standing Order (Sittings of the House)."—[The Prime Minister.]

The House divided; Ayes, 244;Noes, 131.

Division No. 85.] AYES. [4.5 p.m.
Adams, S. V. T. (Leeds, W.) Butler, R. A. Drewe, C.
Agnew, Lieut.-Comdr. P. G. Caine, G. R. Hall- Duckworth, G. A. V. (Salop)
Albery, I. J. Campbell, Sir E. T. Duckworth, W. R. (Moss Side)
Allen, Lt.-Col. J. Sandeman (B'kn'hd) Cartland, J. R. H. Dugdale, Major T. L.
Allen, Lt.-Col. Sir W. J. (Armagh) Carver, Major W. H. Duggan. H. J.
Anderson, Sir A. Garrett (C. of Ldn.) Castlereagh, Viscount Duncan, J. A. L.
Anstruther-Gray, W. J. Cazalet, Thelma (Islington, E.) Dunglass, Lord
Aske, Sir R. W. Cazalet, Capt. V. A. (Chippenham) Dunne, P. R. R.
Assheton, R. Cecil, Rt. Hon. Lord Hugh Edmondson, Major Sir J.
Astor, Major Hon. J. J. (Dover) Chamberlain, Rt. Hn. Sir A. (Br.W.) Elliot, Rt. Hon. W. E.
Astor, Hon. W. W. (Fulham, E.) Chamberlain, Rt. Hn. N. (Edgb'tn) Ellis, Sir G.
Baldwin, Rt. Hon. Stanley Channon, H. Elmley, Viscount
Barclay-Harvey, C. M. Chapman, A. (Rutherglen) Emmott, C. E. G. C.
Baxter, A. Beverley Chapman, Sir S. (Edinburgh, S.) Emrys-Evans, P. V.
Beauchamp, Sir B. C. Chorlton, A. E. L. Entwistle, C. F.
Beaumont, Hon. R. E. B. (Portsm'h) Churchill, Rt. Hon. Winston S. Evans, Capt. A. (Cardiff, S.)
Bernays, R. H. Cobb, Sir C. S. Everard, W. L.
Blair, Sir R. Colfox, Major W. P. Fildes, Sir H.
Blindell, Sir J. Colman, N. C. D. Fox, Sir G. W. G.
Boothby, R. J. G. Cook, T. R. A. M. (Norfolk N.) Fraser, Capt. Sir I.
Borodale, Viscount Cooke, J. D. (Hammersmith, S.) Fremantle, Sir F. E.
Bossom, A. C. Cooper, Rt. Hn. A. Duff(W'st'r S.G'gs) Furness, S. N.
Boulton, W. W. Cooper, Rt. Hn. T. M. (E'burgh, W.) Ganzoni, Sir J.
Bowater, Col. Sir T. Vansittart Croft, Brig.-Gen. Sir H. Page Gilmour, Lt.-Col. Rt. Hon. Sir J.
Bower, Comdr. R T. Crooke, J. S. Gledhill, G.
Bowyer. Capt. Sir G. E. W. Crookshank, Capt. H. F. C. Gluckstein, L. H.
Boyce, H. Leslie Cross, R H. Glyn, Major Sir R. G. C.
Brass, Sir W. Culverwell, C. T. Goodman, Cal. A. W.
Briscoe, Capt. R. G. Davies, Major G. F. (Yeovil) Graham, Captain A. C. (Wirral)
Brocklebank, C. E. R. Davison, Sir W. H. Granville, E. L.
Brown, Col. D. C. (Hexham) De la Bère, R. Greene, W. P. C. (Worcester)
Brown, Rt. Hon. E. (Leith) Denman, Hon. R. D. Gretton, Col. Rt. Hon. J.
Brown. Brig.-Gen. H. C. (Newbury) Denville, Alfred Gridley, Sir A. B.
Bull, B. B. Despencer-Robertson, Major J. A. F. Grimston, R. V.
Burgin, Dr. E. L. Dorman-Smith, Major R. H. Gritten, W. G. Howard
Burton, Col. H. W. Dower, Capt. A. V. G. Guest, Hon. I. (Brecon and Radnor)
Guinness, T. L. E. B. Manningham-Buller, Sir M. Shepperson, Sir E. W.
Gunston, Capt. D. W. Margesson, Capt. Rt. Hon. H. D. R Simon, Rt. Hon. Sir J. A.
Guy, J. C. M. Maxwell, S. A. Smiles, Lieut.-Colonel Sir W. D.
Hannah, I. C. Mayhew, Lt.-Col. J. Smith, Sir R. W. (Aberdeen)
Hannon, Sir P. J. H. Mills, Sir F. (Layton, E.) Smithers Sir W.
Harvey, G. Mills, Major J. D.(New Forest) Somerset, T.
Heligers, Captain F. F. A. Mitchell, Sir W. Lane (Streatham) Somervell, Sir D. B. (Crewe)
Hepburn, P. G. T. Buchan- Moreing, A. C. Somerville. A. A. (Windsor)
Hepworth, J. Mcrris-Jones, Dr. J. H. Southby. Comdr. A. R. j.
Herbert, Major J. A. (Monmouth) Morrison, G. A. (Scottish Univ's.) Spender-Clay, Lt.-Cl Rt. Hn. H. H.
Hills, Major Rt. Hon. J. W. (Ripon) Morrison, W. S. (Cirencester) Stanley, Rt. Hon. Lord (Fylde)
Holdsworth, H. Muirhead, Lt.-Col. A. J. Stanley, Rt. Hon. Oliver (W'm'I'd)
Holmes, J. S. Nicolson, Hon. H. G. Storey, S.
Hope, Captain Hon. A. O. J. O'Neill, Major Rt. Hon. Sir Hugh Strauss. E. A. (Southwark, N.)
Hore-Belisha, Rt. Hon. L. Ormsby-Gore, Rt. Hon. W. G. Stuart, Lord C. Crichton- (N'thw.h)
Hulbert, N. J. OrrEwing, I. L. Stuart, Hot j. (Moray and Nairn)
Hunter, T. Palmer. G. E. H. Sueter, Rear-Admiral Sir M. F.
Inskip, Rt. Hon. Sir T. W. H. Patrick, C. M. Sutcliffe. H.
James, Wing-Commander A. W. Percy, Rt. Hon. Lord E. Tasker, Sir R. I.
Jarvis, Sir J. J. Perkins, W. R. D. Tate, Mavis C.
Joel, D. J. B. Petherick, M. Thomson, Sir.J. D. W.
Keeling, E. H. Plugge, L. F. Titchfield, Marquess of
Kerr, J. Graham (Scottish Univs.) Pownall, Sir A. Assheton Touche, G. C.
Kimball, L. Purbrick, R. Train, Sir J.
Law, R. K. (Hull, S.W.) Radford, E. A. Tree, A. R. L. F.
Leckie, J. A. Raikes, H. V. A. M. Tryon, Major Rt. Hon. G. C.
Leech. Dr. J. W. Ramsbotham, H. Tufnell, Lieut.-Com. R. L.
Lees-Jones, J. Rankin, R. Turton, R. H.
Leighton, Major B. E. P. Rathbone, J. R. (Bodmin) Wakefield, W. W.
Levy, T. Reid, Sir D. D. (Down) Walker-Smith, Sir J.
Lewis, O. Rickards, G. W. (Skipton) Wallace, Captain Euan
Liewellin, Lieut.-Col. J. J. Robinson, J. R. (Blackpool) Ward, Irene (Wallsend)
Lloyd, G. W. Ropner, Colonel L. Warrender, Sir V.
Loder, Captain Hon. J. de V. Ross, Major Sir R. D. (L'derry) Waterhouse, Captain C.
Lumley, Capt. L. R. Ross Taylor, W. (Woodbridge) Wells, S. R.
Lyons, A. M. Ruggles-Brise. Colonel Sir E. A. Wickham, Lt.-Col. E. T. R.
Mabane, W. (Huddersfield) Russell, A. West (Tynemouth) Williams. H. G. (Croydon, S.)
MacAndrew, Lt. Col. Sir C. G. Russell, R. J. (Eddlsbury) Willoughby de Eresby, Lord
M'Connell, Sir J. Russell, S. H. M. (Darwen) Windsor-Clive, Lieut.-Colonel G.
MacDonald, Rt. fin. J. R. (Scot. U.) Salmon, Sir I. Womersley, Sir W. J.
Macdonald, Capt. P. (Isle of Wight) Salt, E. W. Wood, Rt. Hon. Sir Kingsley
McEwen, Capt. H. J. F. Samuel, Sir A. M. (Farnham) Young, A. S. L. (Partick)
McKie, J. H. Sanderson, Sir F. B.
Macnamara, Capt. J. R. J. Sassoon, Rt. Hon. Sir P. TELLERS FOR THE AYES. —
Magnay, T. Savcry, Servington Sir George Penny and Lieut.-
Maitland. A. Selley, H. R. Colonel Sir A. Lambert Ward.
Makins, Brig.-Gen. E. Shaw. Major P. S. (Wavertree)
Aciand, R. T, D. (Barnstaple) Frankel, D. Lunn, W.
Adams, D. (Consett) Gallacher, W. Macdonald, G. (Ince)
Adamson, W. M. Gardner, B. W. McEntee, V. La T.
Alexander, Rt. Hon. A. V. (H'isbr.) George, Major G. Lloyd (Pembroke) McGhee, H. G.
Attlee. Rt. Hon. C R. George, Megan Lloyd (Anglesey) McGovern, J.
Banfield, J. W. Gibbins, J. MacLaren, A.
Barr, J. Green, W. H. (Deptford) Maclean, N.
Batey, J. Greenwood, Rt. Hon. A. MacMillan, M. (Western Isles)
Ballenger, F. Grenfell, D. R. MacNeill, Weir, L.
Benson, G. Griffith, F. Kingsley (M'ddl'sbro, W.) Mainwaring, W. H.
Broad, F. A. Griffiths. G. A. (Hemsworth) Mander, G. le M.
Bromfield, W. Groves, T. E. Marklew, E.
Brown, C. (Mansfield) Hall, G. H. (Aberdare) Marshall, F.
Brown, Rt. Hon. J. (S. Ayrshire) Hall, J. H. (Whitechapel) Mathers, G.
Buchanan, G. Hardie, G. D. Maxton, J.
Burke, W. A. Harris, Sir P. A. Messer, F.
Cape, T. Henderson, A. (Kingswinford) Montague, F.
Chater, D. Henderson, T. (Tradeston) Morrison, Rt Hon. H. (Ha'krny, S.)
Cluse, W. S. Holland, A. Morrison, R. C. (Tottenham, N.)
Cocks, F. S. Hollins, A. Naylor, T. E.
Compton. J. Jagger, J. Oliver, G. H.
Cove, W. G. Jenkins, A. (Pontypool) Paling, W.
Cripps, Hon. Sir Stafford John, W. Parker, H. J. H.
Daggar, G. Jones, A. C. (Shipley) Petrick-Lawrence, F. W.
Dalton, H. Jones, Morgan (Caerphilly) Potts, J.
Davies, D. L. (Pontypridd) Kelly, W. T. Oulbell, J. D.
Davies, R. J. (Westhoughton) Kennedy, Rt. Hon. T. Riley, B.
Day, H. Kirby. B. V. Roberts. W. (Cumberland. N.)
Dobble, W. Lansbury, Rt. Hon. G. Robinson, W. A. (St. Helens)
Dunn, E. (Rother Valley) Lathan, G. Rowson, G.
Ede, J. C. Lawson, J. J. Salter, Dr. A.
Edwards, A. (Middlesbrough E.) Leach, W. Seely, Sir H M.
Edwards, Sir C. (Bedwelity) Lee, F. Sexton, T. M.
Fletcher, Lt.-Comdr. R. T. H. Leonard, W. Shinwell, E.
Foot, D. M. Logan, D. G. Short, A.
Silverman, S. S. Thorne, W. Wilkinson, Ellen
Simpson, F. B. Thurtie, E. Williams, E. J. (Ogmore)
Sinclair, Rt. Hon. Sir A. (C'thn's) Tinker, J. J. Williams, T. (Don Valley)
Smith, Ben (Rotherhithe) Viant, S. P. Wilson, C. H. (Attercllffe)
Smith, E. (Stoke) Walkden, A. G. Woods, G. S. (Finsbury)
Smith, Rt. Hon. H. B. Lees. (Kly) Watkins, F. C. Young, Sir R. (Newton)
Smith, T. (Normanton) Watson, W. McL.
Stewart, W. J. (H'ght'n-le-Sp'ng) Welsh, J. C. TELLERS FOR THE NOES.—
Strauss, G. R. (Lambeth, N.) Westwood, J. Mr. Whiteley and Mr. Charleton.
Taylor, R. J. (Morpeth) White, H. Graham

Question put, and agreed to.