PREAMBLE. (Hansard, 12 December 1936)

§ Mr. LEES-SMITH
The Prime Minister in his opening statement indicated that we might later, have a fuller explanation of the part of the Bill which deals with the position of the Dominions. This is a very complicated matter, and I think it would be to the general interest if we learned a little more fully from the Government what the procedure is to be in this respect. I have looked at the 2228 Statute of Westminster which governs this matter. I find that the Preamble to the Statute of Westminster states that this legislation would not become operative unless it received the assent of all the Parliaments of all the Dominions. That Preamble would indicate that, if, say, the Irish Free State Parliament declined to give their assent, the whole legislation would fall to the ground. But I am told by authorities that the Preamble is not actually binding, and that I have to turn to the text of the Statute of Westminster to discover what the legal position is. Section 4 of the Statute of Westminster apparently lays down that the legislation would be binding on this country but would not be binding on any Dominion which did not pass its own legislation adopting the Act for itself. I would like to know whether that is the real position? I think also it would be of interest if the hon. and learned Gentleman would explain why there is a difference here between Canada and the other three Dominions mentioned. I can half understand the position by reading the Statute, but I cannot entirely understand it, and for the purpose of eliciting information on these points, I submit these questions.

§ The ATTORNEY-GENERAL
This is, I am afraid, a rather complicated matter, but I shall do my best to explain it. First of all, as the right hon. Gentleman pointed out, the two material parts of the Statute of Westminster which fall to be considered are the Preamble and Section 4. If the right hon. Gentleman will also refer to Section 10 he will see that Section 4 does not apply to the Dominions referred to in that Section unless in fact adopted by them. Australia and New Zealand have not adopted Section 4 so that, clearly, they are in a different position from the Dominions, namely, Canada, South Africa, and the Irish Free State, to which Section 4 applies. South Africa has in addition passed an Act of her own, the effect of which may, I think, be described as follows: It provides that in a case where the provisions of any Statute would affect the Union of South Africa, under her own law she has to have her own Statute and cannot rely upon an extension of any Act of ours under Section 4.
That explains why Canada, which is one of the Dominions to which Section 4 2229 applies and which has not modified the law as it appears in the Statute, appears here as "requesting and consenting" because those are the words which under Section 4 of the Statute of Westminster have to be expressly declared if our Act is to extend to that Dominion. Australia and New Zealand have not adopted the Statute of Westminster, and therefore, as a matter of strict law—I am not now speaking of the constitutional usage and conventions referred to in the Preamble of the Statute of Westminster—the Act of this Parliament amending the Act of Settlement would apply to Australia and New Zealand. But, of course, as the Preamble to the Statute of Westminster recites—and I am merely summarising it and not following it in the letter—any alteration affecting the succession to the Throne is a matter of common concern and common interest to be carried through, if possible in complete co-operation and anyhow, with general assent. In view of that constitutional position, Australia and New Zealand have desired that their assent should be expressly recited in our Bill. The Union of South Africa has similarly desired that her assent should be recited, though, as I have already explained, her constitutional position is in fact different from that of Australia and New Zealand in that the Statute of Westminster applies, and, indeed, she has her own Act making its provisions somewhat more rigid. That is the legal position so far as these four Dominions are concerned.
I may now say a word or two about the Preamble to the Statute of West-mister, because the right hon. Gentleman pointed out that the Preamble sets out as the established constitutional position that any alteration of the law affecting the succession to the Throne shall thereafter require the assent as well of the Parliaments of all the Dominions as of the Parliament of the United Kingdom. It is a constitutional convention and is not a statutory provision, but I would like to tell the Committee that the Parliaments of all the Dominions are going to be asked to take appropriate action by their Governments, and in the cases where the summoning of Parliament is not immediately practicable, the Governments concerned have expressly stated that they are satisfied with what is being done. I think, therefore, the Committee will agree, knowing as they do that the 2230 fullest information has, of course, been given to the Dominions on all these matters, that the spirit of the constitutional convention has been completely complied with. The four Dominions fully assent to what is being done, and they are proposing to take their own steps to bring the matters before their own Parliaments.
So far as the Irish Free State is concerned, the position there is that the Statute of Westminster applies. She, like any other Dominion that has adopted the Statute of Westminster, is fully entitled to have her own legislation, and, as I have told the House, South Africa is having her own legislation. The Irish Free state Parliament is being summoned to-day, and therefore the Irish Free State is dealing with this matter in its own Parliament on the same day as we are dealing with it in our Parliament here. The form of the proposals which the Irish Free State Government will put before their Parliament is not at present known, and I think, therefore, the Committee will agree that it would be premature to discuss them in the absence of knowledge as to what they are.

§ Mr. DENMAN
To make that extremely interesting explanation absolutely complete, I think perhaps my hon. and learned Friend would like to add a word about Newfoundland. I take it that the assent of Newfoundland is implied, because we, who are now responsible for the Government of that Dominion, are presenting this Measure. Would it not then be advisable that our assent on the part of Newfoundland should be stated on the face of the Preamble?

§ The ATTORNEY-GENERAL
I think not, for this reason: Newfoundland did not in any event adopt Section 4 and, as is, of course, known to the Committee, she has not at present the status of a Dominion or a Parliament of her own. The assent of both the Commonwealth of Australia and of New Zealand is inserted in the Bill in accordance with the constitutional convention as set out in the Preamble that the Dominions with their Parliaments should assent to Measures altering the succession. As Newfoundland, under its present constitution, has not a Parliament and therefore has not the status of a Dominion as 2231 contemplated by this Statute, I think the proper course is not to put in what would clearly be a rather artificial recital.

§ Mr. ALBERY
I want to draw attention to one part of the Preamble, beginning at line 9, which refers to the communications to the Dominions. It goes on specifically to enumerate each Dominion which has taken action, and, of course, it does not include the Irish Free State. It appears to me that at a subsequent date that paragraph, starting at line 9, might well be read as acquiescence by this Parliament in the fact that the Free State is no longer in any sense a Dominion. I only want to ask whether the Attorney-General agrees that that paragraph might be improved by the insertion, after the word "to," in line 10, of the word "all," which, it seems to me, would imply that all the Dominions had been communicated with.

§ The CHAIRMAN
I would call the hon. Gentleman's attention to the fact that it is too late to propose Amendments now. The question now before us is, "That this be the Preamble to the Bill."

§ Mr. ALBERY
Would I be out of Order in suggesting to the Attorney-General or the Government that they might make an Amendment to that effect in another place?

§ The CHAIRMAN
I was merely calling the hon. Member's attention to the fact that no Amendment is possible in this House at this stage.

§ Mr. ALBERY
Perhaps if I put it in that way, the Attorney-General will kindly give me a reply?

§ The ATTORNEY-GENERAL
I am glad of the opportunity of stating that, of course, all his Majesty's communications went to all his Dominions. That is quite clear. I suggest to the Committee that it would not as a matter of fact improve it even if we inserted the word "all" suggested by the hon. Member. "Communication to his Dominions" means, in accordance with the ordinary sense of the word, to all his Dominions.

§ Mr. SANDYS
With all due humility, as a very young Member of the House, 2232 I would ask the hon. and learned Gentlemen one question on a matter of vital Imperial importance in this connection, and that is the question of the exact time at which this Bill will take effect. It is not quite clear from what my hon. and learned Friend has said whether this Bill—

§ The CHAIRMAN
That does not arise on the Preamble.

§ The PRIME MINISTER
I beg to move, "That the Bill be now read the Third time."
I rise once more to-day, and only for a very few moments, because I do not want this Bill to leave this House without making the few observations which I propose to make. This is the last Bill that will be presented for the Royal Assent during the present reign. The Royal Assent given to this Bill will be the last act of his present Majesty, and I should not like the Bill to go to another place without putting on record what, I feel sure, will be the feeling of this House and of the country, that, though we have this duty to perform to-day, and though we are performing it with unanimity, we can never be unconscious of, and we shall always remember with regard and affection, the whole-hearted and loyal service that His Majesty has given to this country as Prince of Wales and during the short time he has been on the Throne. Like many of his generation, he was flung into the War as a very young man, and he has served us well in trying to qualify himself for that office which he knew must be his if he lived. For all that work I should like to put on record here to-day that we are grateful and that we shall not forget. There is no need on this Bill to say anything of the future. It deals with the fate of him who is still King and who will cease to be King in a few short hours. I felt that I could hardly reconcile it with my conscience or my feelings if I let this Bill go to another place without saying just these few words.

§ Mr. BUCHANAN
I do not intend to detain the House or to reply to the Prime Minister, although I would enter 2233 our dissent from what he said about unanimity. I only want to take exception to a remark which the Home Secretary constantly made about manuscript Amendments. We drafted our Amendment last night—

§ Mr. SPEAKER
I do not think that I can allow the hon. Member to mention this matter now. It is clearly out of Order on Third reading.

§ Mr. BUCHANAN
I only rose for the purpose of explanation and to say that we took the course of giving it to you, Sir, and to the Prime Minister at the earliest possible moment. We will not divide on the third Reading because we divided on Second Reading. We have registered our opinion, and, as Parliamentarians, we accept the decision of the House. We will, however, take action again when subsequent legislation is produced. We shall take action on the Civil List. I only want now to register our opinion that we do not agree with what the Prime Minister said about unanimity. We still hold the view we held, and we shall preserve our right to oppose subsequent legislation as we have opposed this legislation to-day.

§ Mr. SPEAKER
I shall suspend the sitting to await the news of the Royal Commission. The bells of the House will be rung when I have news that the Commission is ready.