HC Deb 08 April 1936 vol 310 cc2912-5

As soon as may be after the passing of this Act. the Minister shall consult with the Postmaster General and, subject to his concurrence, shall make Regulations under the principal Act so far as it appears to them to be practicable and reasonable or the purpose of enabling persons residing in rural areas to make claims for, and to obtain payment of, agricultural benefit at a Post Office within a reasonable distance of the place where they reside.

This Amendment was inserted in another place in order that what was the intention of the Government from the beginning could be carried out, namely, that first of all we should have regard to the rural background in the unemployment insurance scheme for agriculture and that, secondly, the agricultural worker should not have to travel too far for the purposes of the Act. I made it clear to my fellow Members in Committee upstairs that that was always our intention. Consequently, there will be branch offices established and there will be appointed rural agents in a large number of villages.

Mr. OUIBELL

Will the right hon. Gentleman make clear what is meant by the words: as it appears to them to be practicable and reasonable for the purpose of enabling persons residing in rural areas, etc. What is meant by "practicable and reasonable" in this respect?

Mr. BROWN

It is to make it quite clear that we shall carry out our intention of making it as easy as possible for rural workers to obtain the benefits of the Act. After I have consulted with the Postmaster-General we shall take such steps as commend themselves to our discretion in the matter.

Mr. LAWSON

Have the right hon. Gentleman and his Department had any experience in rural areas of the administration of this matter?

Mr. BROWN

We have had experience—

Earl WINTERTON

This is an Amendment of some substance, and I should like to have your ruling on this point. I take it that this desultory discussion will not prevent any hon. Member discussing this Amendment when it is put?

Mr. SPEAKER

The Minister of Labour is making a general statement as to what he proposes to do, but each Amendment will have to be put separately, and then any hon. Member can discuss the Amendment if he so desires.

Mr. BROWN

I can assure the noble Lord that this is a point to which we attach great importance; it carries out what is the desire of the Government. It was raised in committee in the form of a new Clause which I could not accept, but we have consulted those specially concerned with the problem and the new Clause embodies the agreement which has been arrived at. There are two main purposes in mind, first, that we shall administer the Bill with the rural background always in mind and, secondly, avoid all possible hardship to people in remote villages where the normal exchange offices are not possible by making the fullest possible use of post offices which may be in the area.

The next Amendment is purely drafting and is consequential on the Amendments to which I have already referred. The Amendment in the Schedule is to leave out lines 29 to 34, and insert: At the end thereof there shall be inserted the following sub-section: '(5) the following persons shall not be insured under this Act in respect of employment in agriculture, that is to say—

  1. (a) persons not domiciled in the United Kingdom who are ordinarily resident outside the United Kingdom;
  2. (b) persons who are, to such extent and in such circumstances as may be prescribed, ordinarily dependent for their livelihood on occupations in agriculture that are not insurable employment;
and if any question arises as to whether any person is by virtue of this sub-section not insured in respect of employment in agriculture, the question shall be decided by the Minister subject to the provisions of section eighty-four of this Act,' The first part deals with migratory labour. It is little more than drafting, but it was pointed out to me that there was some danger in the old form of words that a returned British soldier might find himself excluded from the benefits of the scheme. We do not desire that, and the Amendment is to safeguard the position of a returned British soldier. The position of ordinary migratory labour remains the same. The Amendment also carries out an undertaking which I gave on Report stage in regard to smallholdings to the hon. Member for Thirsk and Malton (Mr. Turton). The next Amendment also on the Schedule is in the form of a new Sub-section: Line 33, at the end, insert: Section seventy—At the end thereof there shall be inserted the following sub-section— ' (3) For the purpose of determining in relation to persons employed in insurable employment in agriculture the excess which must be payable under the rules of an association in order to enable a special arrangement with the association to be made or continued, sub-section (1) of this section shall have effect as if the amounts mentioned in paragraph (a) and paragraph (b) thereof were reduced by one-half.' ") It modifies the rules as to the amount of benefit which an association must pay out of its own funds to enable a special arrangement to be made to pay its members through the association instead of at the local offices. It was raised also in another place. There was, I believe, some misunderstanding about it, for at the moment there are no associations of that kind operating in rural areas, although some may have rural members who get additional benefits through the association. But some importance is attached to making it as easy as possible for additional benefits to be given, and after discussion this also has been agreed as giving effect to the desire of those who raised the point in another place.

Lords Amendments considered accordingly.

Lords Amendment: After Clause 12, insert: