HC Deb 27 May 1935 vol 302 cc831-47

6.13 p.m.

Duchess of ATHOLL

I beg to move, in page 37, line 38, after "Provinces," to insert "Punjab.".


I must warn the Noble Lady that it has been decided that this Amendment and the next, in the name of the Secretary of State—in page 37, line 38, to leave out "and Bihar," and insert "Bihar and Assam"—should be discussed together, though, of course, separate Divisions can be taken upon them if necessary.


On a point of Order. Have we passed from Clause 59?


It is not necessary to put the Clause on Report.

Duchess of ATHOLL

The purpose of my Amendment is to ensure that the Legislature of the Punjab, as well as that of other Provinces mentioned, shall consist of two chambers, and the Amendment of the Secretary of State will have a similar effect in the case of Assam. Those who remember the evidence given on behalf of the Chambers of Commerce in India and of the European Association will remember that those bodies, through their representatives, contended with great force in favour of bi-cameral legislatures. It was one of their major recommendations, and I think it is fair to say that it was one of the major conditions under which they were prepared to accept the White Paper Constitution. Speaking as a Conservative, I am accustomed to attach great importance to a bi-cameral constitution, and I understand that it is the accepted policy of the Conservative party to stress the importance of a bicameral constitution in this country. In this country we have been working out a Parliamentary system for something like 700 years; we have enjoyed the benefits of compulsory education for all our people for some two generations; and it might be thought that perhaps we had arrived at such a position of stability in this country that we could have a single-chamber legislature. Emphatically, however, that is not the view held by Members of the party to which I belong, and, therefore, it seems to me to be only right that we should try to secure a similar benefit for India where, as we know, some 80 per cent. of the people are illiterate, and constitutional government is in its infancy, and where things tend to be less stable than in this country. All sorts of movements are witness to the instability of many governments in India, and we know that there can be movements which add very greatly to the difficulty of governments, and tend to make for instability.


Will the Noble Lady explain why she is not seeking to extend the Second Chamber to all Provinces, and why others should be deprived of it?

Duchess of ATHOLL

I am glad to see that the Secretary of State is proposing to extend it to Assam, and I would gladly have seen an Amendment put down in wider terms. I have not had an opportunity of going into the question of the recommendation of the Association of Chambers of Commerce being carried out in all Provinces. I understand that there has been some opposition in the Punjab to these proposals. I heard a reference made to the fact, and I shall be glad if we can be informed of the extent of the opposition. The Punjab is a very important Province which contains many varied elements and one in which there might be considerable difficulty in securing stable government. There are very virile and martial elements in the Punjab, and it is the sort of Province in which you want to be very sure that your government is stable. The other day I was told by someone who, I believe, is well conversant with affairs in that Province, that the Opposition which had shown itself to this proposal was not at all wide, but was extremely limited. That was the information given to me only a week or two ago by someone recently home from India and who, I believe, is a good source of information. The House ought to hear from the Minister the extent of the opposition that has shown itself to the setting up of a second chamber in the Punjab.

When we realise what important Provinces are to be given second chambers under the Bill, it seems strange that the very important Province of the Punjab, situated in a great strategical position, commanding the North-West Frontier of India, or, anyhow, being in the second line on the North-West Frontier of India, should be left out, and the House is entitled to know why it is not thought necessary to provide it with a second chamber. The Secretary of State, no doubt, has reason to believe that there has been opposition to this in the Punjab, and he hesitates to impose a second chamber on this Province against the supposed wishes of a section of the people of the Province, but I think that he must realise by now that he is imposing a constitution as a whole on an India which does not seem at all ready to accept it. If he is proposing to do that, why need he flinch from embodying in the Constitution a provision for a second chamber, which, I am sure, he must regard as a most desirable part of any constitution, as it is a part of the Constitution of this country, which he would not wish to see sacrificed or limited in any way.

6.20 p.m.


I beg to second the Amendment.

I would ask the representative of the Government when he replies, whether he can inform the House of the real reason why the Punjab should have been exempted from a second chamber. It is not a new or an unimportant Province, but one of the most important in India. Certainly we have relied upon the Punjab more than upon any other Provinces for its contribution to the Army and so on in years gone by. No doubt the right hon. Gentleman has some good reason, and I think the House is entitled to have it, more especially as he is proposing a second chamber in the case of Assam. Would it not be wiser that we should give this additional protection to the people of the Punjab? Can there be any stronger reason? It is no good telling us that the people of the Punjab do not want a second chamber, for everyone knows that no people in a single Province have been consulted on the question at all, and if they had, it would have been difficult for them to express their views. The only information that we have is that the whole of the Hindus throughout India have declared against reforms, and you cannot say they object. I suppose the truth is that the Secretary of State does not think that he could collect sufficient politically-minded people in the Provinces. I presume that that is the only reason. Logically, you cannot deny to the Punjab or any other Province what is granted to Madras, Bengal or the United Provinces. The House would be interested to hear the real reason why the Punjab is being eliminated.

6.22 p.m.

Lieut.-Colonel Sir WALTER MILES

I understand that it is in order to discuss the question of the Province of Assam, although the Amendment relating to it has not yet been formally moved, and I desire to express to the Secretary of State the thanks of many people in Assam for having given them a second chamber. I myself have received letters and I have no doubt that the Secretary of State has received 10 letters to every one that I have received. I know that there is a great deal of satisfaction in that Province that a second chamber has been given. It must be remembered, when comparing the Punjab with Assam, that every Province in India differs one from another. You cannot compare the Punjab with Assam, and indeed you could hardly compare Bengal, which touches Assam, with Assam itself. The question of expenses in the Province has been raised. I would compare the people of Assam to the Scots, and the people of Calcutta as being more like the people of London. The people in Assam are extraordinarily economical and thrifty, and though they may not live on oatmeal, at any rate rice and things like that are their principal diet. When you get to Calcutta you see extravagance and opulence and the show of expensive Rolls Royce cars, and race horses. You do not see at Aberdeen what you see at Ascot. It must be remembered that, though Assam at the present moment is small in population, it is very large in area and the population is increasing very fast. Although the population of Scotland goes South, the people remain in Assam because it is one of the few places in India where there is still land to enable the people to extend. Probably the population of Assam will increase faster than that of almost any other Province in India.

Another argument in favour of a second chamber in Assam is that the seat of government is at Shillong, a hill place, about 4, 500 feet up. I can understand that in another place here one does not always see a great attendance of the older members of that House, because London, in spite of the present Minister of Transport and of his regulations, is an extremely dangerous place for old people. Indeed it has been said that life here is only for the quick or the dead, but in Assam there is not a problem of that kind, and people are very glad to escape from the hot weather in the plains, and get among the clear, refreshing breezes of the hill station. Elder statesmen will be very glad indeed of a, second chamber and of an opportunity to get up there, and I am sure that their brains will work very much better in the cooler climate. I have given some reasons for the establishment of a second chamber in Assam, which is very different from other places in India, where the seat of Government is not a healthy hill station. On behalf of relatives out there, I wish to thank the Secretary of State very much indeed.

6.25 p.m.


I am sure that the House will have appreciated the reasons which the hon. and gallant Member for Blackburn (Sir W. Smiles) has given for a second chamber in Assam. I think that they will also appreciate the great interest which the hon. Member has himself taken in this subject and the hard work he has put in on behalf of what he regards as the Aberdonian province for the purpose of getting a second chamber. I hope that a second chamber in Assam will have the effect which he desires upon the legislation of the Province, and that it will play its part in the Constitution of that Province. As we are discussing the Amendment in the name of my right hon. Friend, and that moved by my Noble Friend together, I will first deal with Assam. The decision to have a second chamber in Assam has been come to after considerable consideration and discussion. We have decided to insert provisions for a second chamber in Assam owing to the history of this subject in the past, and the further inquiries which we made as a result of the Debate on the Committee stage. On the occasion when I had the privilege of visiting India as a member of the Franchise Committee, we found that the majority of the Assam Franchise Committee favoured a second chamber, and also that a proportion of the Assam Government at that time favoured the establishment of such a Chamber. On 17th December, 1932, the question was debated in the Assam Legislature and the voting was equal, and the President only gave his casting vote against the Second Chamber in order to keep the status quo. That will show the House that there was at that date a substantial amount of opinion in Assam in favour of a second chamber.


And a substantial amount of opinion against.


I am coming to that. In that debate, I would point out to the hon. Member for Caerphilly (Mr. Morgan Jones), official members and ministers did not speak or vote, and they voted on nonparty lines, the Hindus and Mohammedans being divided. There was no attempt on the part of the official bloc to influence a decision on this occasion. This shows the House, therefore, without putting it too high, that there is, or that there was on that date, a very substantial amount of opinion in Assam in favour of a second chamber. After our discussion in Committe we referred the matter again to the Assam Government and we found that it can be said that the Assam Government are definitely in favour of a second chamber, and they have told us that there is substantial feeling in favour of a second chamber throughout the whole Province of Assam. The House will therefore realise that we have recently submitted this question to the Assam Government, that they are in favour of a second Chamber, and that they told us there is a substantial body of opinion in favour of a second chamber in that Province. The Government have, therefore, thought it quite reasonable and legitimate to confer the bicameral form of government upon the future Province of Assam.

The history with regard to the Punjab is different from that which I have related in reference to Assam. When the Franchise Committee visited India, they found that the Government of the Punjab were on the whole against a second chamber, and the Provincial Committee in these Provinces expressed no opinion, whereas the Provincial Committee of Assam were definitely in favour of a second chamber. Therefore, we find in the Punjab that there was that feeling against a second chamber. The matter was discussed in 1932 in the Punjab Council, and the proposal to establish 'a second chamber was negatived without a division. That is a definite expression by the Punjab Council against the establishment of a, second chamber. The history of the two cases may therefore be said to be totally different. In Assam the feeling may be said to be in favour of a second chamber, and in the Punjab there is a definite feeling against one. The Government are temperamentally wedded to the bicameral system, whereas hon. Members opposite are temperamentally opposed to it. It would, therefore, not be for me to enter into a discussion of the matter at greater length, but to say that, to take the example of Assam, we think the establishment of 'a second chamber will provide opportunity for certain people who might otherwise not be in politics to take their part in the politics of the Province; and, further, we think that the effect of a second chamber on the passage of laws through the Legislature will be beneficial and will give opportunity for consideration, for 'amendment and so forth. We consider, there being a substantial amount of opinion in Assam in favour of a second chamber, that it will be wise for Assam to have one. These considerations, however, cannot apply to the Province of the Punjab, where there is not a demand and where we have found that the opinion of the Council is definitely against the establishment of a second chamber.

6.32 p.m.


It is very natural that I should rise to say something on this important proposal. I do not know what the experience of the people of India will be in regard to a Second Chamber, but we know our own experience, and we calculate the effect of this Measure by the experience of our own country. The Under-Secretary, who is so well versed and so capable of putting the case, does not seem to have justified the proposal. All the justification that he has put forward for the establishment of a Second Chamber in Assam must, in principle, be in favour of establishing the same sort of institution in the Punjab.

Sir W. SMILES indicated dissent.


The hon. and gallant Member for Blackburn (Sir W. Smiles) shakes his head. He knows Assam intimately and he has told us that he speaks for a great body of opinion in Assam. I am sure that it will be the last time that any great body of opinion will speak for a Second Chamber in Assam. I have yet to learn of any great body of opinion speaking in favour of a, Second Chamber as it exists in this country. I suppose that the body of opinion in favour of a Second Chamber is the sort of opinion which was expressed by the hon. Member, in that you must have someone to watch the passage of laws through the Lower Chamber. That opinion has been held for generations by certain people in this country who have the idea that the House of Commons should be kept in its proper place. They cannot trust the Lower Chamber anywhere. That is exactly what is meant by this proposal.

The Under-Secretary failed to put forward any convincing argument that there was a substantial majority of opinion in favour of setting up a Second Chamber in Assam. He said that the voting was equal and that the President gave his vote in favour of the status quo Surely, that is the best argument against setting up a Second Chamber in Assam. The little experience that I have had of work on local authorities has been that where the voting is equal on any occasion the mayor or the chairman always gives his casting vote in favour of the status quo In such circumstances he would be a very insistent person who would say that there was a great body of opinion in favour of something on which there was an equal vote. The Under-Secretary said that there were some people temperamentally in favour of a Second Chamber and others temperamentally against it. Certainly, we object very strongly to this proposal. It seems to me that there is a flaw in it as far as India is concerned. The hon. Member said that there were men in India, who did not like to bother with party politics and that the establishment of a Second Chamber would enable them to be sent to the House of Lords there.


This is not the occasion to debate the principle of a second chamber. The argument must be confined to the establishment of a second chamber in Assam and the Punjab.


I was coming to that, and was trying to prove that if we are to have second chambers in Assam and the Punjab we must find persons who have had experience in the lower House. What do we do in this country I Hon. Members who have served their parties faithfully in this Chamber—


That argument does not seem to me to have anything to do with the question of an upper chamber in Assam or the Punjab.


I cannot see why the Government should decline to establish a second chamber in the Punjab as well as in Assam. If a second chamber is a good and proper institution to establish in one Province, it is a proper institution to establish in another. Despite what the hon. Member said, I cannot conceive that there is so much difference in the outlook of Assam and the Punjab as to justify the Government in not instituting the same sort of government in the two Provinces. We are not satisfied with the arguments that have been put forward and, unless I am mistaken, we shall be compelled to vote against the Government's proposition.

6.39 p.m.


The only argument to which we can pay attention at this stage is the degree of demand that may exist. Already the Joint Select Committee had extended the number of second chambers as compared with the first recommendations of the White Paper, and that extension was regarded with some apprehension in India. I and my friends will be opposed to the establishment of a second chamber in Assam unless we are satisfied that there is a substantial body of opinion in its favour. If it had remained at the stage described by the Under-Secretary in the Debate that took place in 1932, it would be a very slender basis on which to erect a second chamber. Although there was a strong body of opinion in its favour, there was an equally strong body of opinion against it. I do not attach much importance to the vote of the President, because I expect he was not concerned with the merits of the case.

I understand that there have been inquiries. I do not know what method can be taken now to ascertain public opinion since 1932, but I should like to know whether the Government on the inquiries that they have made during the discussions that have taken place in the Committee stage and since then are satisfied that the larger body of opinion in Assam desires a second chamber. If so, I do not think that it is for this House to oppose it. The argument as to a second chamber in this country does not apply, because the conditions are not in any sense parallel. It is intended that the second chamber in Assam, as elsewhere, shall have a delaying and revising power. Probably the most important question to consider is that in the second chamber in Assam you have your constituency from which has to be elected the representatives on the Council of State. Even if Assam does not get a second chamber, it will have to go through the same machinery in order to constitute the Electoral College that is to elect members to the Council of State, unless the Government take a wiser line on the question of direct and indirect representation. Even if the Amendment were passed, elections would have to take place in the same constituency in order to secure the Electoral College.

I am not in a position to judge what is the demand in Assam, but I understand that the hon. and gallant Member for Blackburn (Sir W. Smiles), who has had long association with that country, is able to speak with some authority as a result of communications. I have no desire to deny what he said, and if the House is given that assurance, 'I do not think that it is for us, on academic grounds, to refuse what may be asked for by the pepole. The hon. Member for Westhoughton (Mr. Rhys Davies) said that whatever applied to Assam should also apply to the Punjab. Everything in this matter rests upon the local demand, and whereas we are informed that local opinion as far as it can be expressed is in favour of a second chamber in Assam, local opinion in the Punjab has been consistently against a second chamber. I cannot understand how the Noble Lady can ask on that evidence how the local demand can be overruled. She was not able to put forward anything that appeals to those of us who are interested in local conditions or that could be accepted in place of what has been put before us by the Government and the evidence submitted to the Joint Select Committee.


In view of the statement that the hon. Member made with regard to the provincial legislatures, is he going to act in the same way on the opinions of legislatures with regard to the reforms as a whole as he is in reference to their opinions on the second chambers?


I am anxious to attach the utmost importance to Indian opinion, and if I attempted to reply to the hon. and gallant Member on the point that he has raised Mr. Speaker would rule me out of order. I may, however, have an opportunity on the Third Reading. I do not wish to be lured by the seductive voice of the hon. and gallant Member into saying anything that would be out of order, but I would ask whether the Noble Lady can set against what has been put before us by the representative of the Government any tangible or substantial evidence of any responsible body or any Parliamentary section in the Punjab that showed a demand for the second chamber which she wishes to see established there?

Duchess of ATHOLL

I did not suggest that the opinion which I quoted was that of a representative body, but I did say that a statement had been made to me by someone who had good sources of information that the opposition to this proposal was much less than had been supposed.


I have no doubt that the Noble Lady is entitled to give the fullest credence to the evidence put before her by the individual to whom she has referred, but she will appreciate the fact that we must weigh the evidence. The evidence was considered by the Joint Select Committee, and by this House, which, indeed, has only the submission of the Government that all along the larger body of opinion in the Punjab has been opposed to the establishment of a second chamber. It would only be inviting criticism, or something like dissatisfaction, if that body of opinion were ignored. I, therefore, propose to support the Government.

6.46 p.m.


The Under-Secretary of State has based the refusal of the Government to confer the boon of a second chamber on the Punjab because there is a legislative assembly in the Punjab which does not wish it. Equally he proposes to confer the boon of a second chamber on Assam because there is a legislative assembly in Assam which wishes to have a second chamber. If he is so sensitive to the feelings of the legislative assemblies in Assam and the Punjab, why are not the Government equally sensitive to the feelings of the legislative assembly at the Centre, which does not want the reforms which we are now passing?

6.47 p.m.


I must not be drawn into that field of discussion. The subject is interesting, but it is out of order. Let me put the position as I see it, first of all, in regard to the Punjab. I do not believe that there is any substantial body of opinion in the Punjab in favour of a second chamber. I am confident that there is very strong and deep-seated feeling against a second chamber. There was a time when some members of one community were in favour of a second chamber in the Punjab, but it is obvious that it was a second chamber which was totally unacceptable to nine-tenths of the other inhabitants. Therefore, I strongly recommend to the House that we should not burn our fingers with what is very inflammable material in the Punjab where the communities are equally balanced, where, on the whole, we have made a satisfactory settlement of the Assembly, and that we had much better leave things as they are and not attempt to impose on the Province an institution, excellent though it may be in theory, and excellent as it is in practice, in the teeth of the overwhelming opposition in that Province. The position is very different in Assam from that in the Punjab. We were always in some doubt as to whether there should be a second chamber in Assam, and I promised on the Committee stage to make a further inquiry. I have made that further inquiry, and find the significant fact that the government of Assam, official and unofficial, are unanimously in favour of a second chamber. They assure me that there is a substantial body over the whole Province in favour a second chamber.


As far as they can tell.


I do not wish to take the House further than I ought. They definitely say that there is a substantial body of feeling over the whole Province in favour of a second Chamber. That, in connection with the fact that two years ago an unofficial vote in the Council was even, weighs the balance slightly in favour of a second Chamber. We have made further inquiries as to the expense and see no reason why a second Chamber of this kind should add materially to the expenditure of a poor Province. Therefore, after this further consideration, I recommend to the House that we should add to the number of provinces which have second Chambers, the Province of Assam.

6.52 p.m.


Before voting on this question, let me tell the Secretary of State that we entirely agree with him when he comes down on the side of popular feeling, as, for instance, he has in the case of the Punjab. We hope that when the people of this country express their antagonism to a second Chamber that he will not hesitate to support the abolition of the second Chamber. We do not want to rush the Secretary of State, but we advise him that that day is not far distant. All the reasons given by the Secretary of State for refusing to accept the Amendment relating to the Punjab are sound, but when the hon. and gallant Member for Blackburn (Sir W. Smiles) proceeded to compliment the right hon. Gentleman for having conceded a second Chamber to Assam he adduced arguments in favour of the concession the most remarkable I have ever heard in favour of a second Chamber. I have never heard before that it is a distinct advantage to have a second Chamber because a Province happens to be on the top of the hill, and that that is a special reason why it should have a second Chamber. The hon. Member says that because it is cool on the top of Assam they ought to have a second Chamber, and that becauses it is hot on the plains of -the Punjab they ought not to have one. The hon. Member advanced another very peculiar argument in favour of a second Chamber for Assam. He quoted Aberdeen and London as a parallel between Assam and the Punjab. He said that they were S not mean in Assam and although they did live on rice it was their luxury. Because they live on rice and are abstemious they ought to have a second Chamber. I should have thought that the argument was the other way round. If they are abstemious people they do not want a second Chamber. In the Punjab, where they have their Rolla Royce motor cars and things like that, they are not entitled to a second Chamber. They are extraordinary arguments, and I hope that the hon. Member with his comprehensive knowledge will try to produce much better if he wants a second Chamber for Assam.

I thought that the arguments advanced by the hon. Member for Bodmin (Mr. Isaac Foot) were equally curious. As a member of an old party which has always been hostile to the super-imposed power of a non-elected body, the argument he advanced was that after all there has been a local demand which should be satisfied. Who are we to stand in the way of a recognised local feeling? If that is a logical statement, why give India the Bill at all? If we are to give them a Bill, why not give them what local demand has been asking? The hon. Member cannot select this little part of the Bill, and because there happens to be a local demand from some very small section of the community interpret that as a general demand of the residents of the Province and say that the demand must be satisfied. That is a very remarkable argument from the hon. Member who has given as much time and thought to this question as any hon. Member. If we are to be satisfied before taking any steps that a definite and an urgent local demand has been made, we ought to know whether it is fairly universal and not a demand expressed by.

a parliament elected on a very limited franchise in which SO per cent. of the people are not able to express an opinion at all, before we declare that that demand is the only thing that this House ought to consider. Not one solitary substantial argument has been advanced in favour of a second chamber for Assam, and while we agree in rejecting the Amendment of the Noble Lady in favour of the Punjab we shall, despite the marvellous arguments of the hon. and gallant Member for Blackburn, vote against Assam.

Amendment negatived.


I beg to move, in page 37, line 38, to leave out "and Bihar, "and insert "Bihar and Assam.".

Question put, "That the words proposed to be left out stand part of the Bill.".

The House divided: Ayes, 36; Noes, 247.

Division No. 217.] AYES. [6.58 p.m.
Adams, D. M.(Poplar, South) Greenwood, Rt. Hon. Arthur Rathbone, Eleanor
Attlee, Clement Richard Grenfell, David Reel (Glamorgan) Smith, Tom (Normanton)
Banfield, John William Griffiths, George A. (Yorks, W. Riding) Strauss, G.R. (Lambeth, North)
Bevan, Aneurin (Ebbw Vale) Griffiths, T. (Monmouth, Pontypool) Thorne, William James
Cleary, J.J Grundy, Thomas W. Tinker, John Joseph
Cove, William G. Hall, George H. (Merthyr Tydvil) Wedgwood, Rt. Hon. Josiah
Cripps, Sir Stafford Jones, Morgan (Caerphilly) West, F.R
Daggar, George Lawson, John James Williams, Dr. John H. (Llanelly)
Devies, David L. (Pontypridd) Logan, David Gilbert Williams, Thomas (York, Don Valley)
Davies, Rhys John (Westhoughton) Macdonald, Gordon (Ince) Wilmot, John
Dobbie, William Maclean, Nell (Glasgow, Govan)
Edwards, Charles Mainwaring, William Henry TELLERS FOR THE AYES.
Gardner, Benjamin Walter Milner, Major James Mr. John and Mr. Groves.
Acland-Troyte, Lieut.-Colonel Brown, Brig.-Gen. H. C. (Berks., Newb'y) Denman, Hon. R. D.
Adams, Samuel Vyvyan T. (Leeds, W.) Buchan-Hepburn, P.G.T Dickie, John P
Agnew, Lieut.-Com. P. G Burghley, Lord Doran, Edward
Albery, Irving James Butler, Richard Austen Duckworth, George A. V
Allen, Lt.-Col. J. Sandeman (B'k'nh'd.) Butt, Sir Alfred Dugdale, Captain Thomas Lionel
Allen, William(Stoke-on-Trent) Cadogan, Hon. Edward Duncan, James A. L. (Kensington, N.)
Allen, Lt.-Col. Sir William (Armagh) Campbell, Sir Edward Taswell (Brmly) Ellis, Sir R. Geoffrey
Amery, Rt. Hon. Leopold C. M. S Campbell, Vice-Admiral G. (Burnley) Eimley, Viscount
Aide, Sir Robert William Campbell-Johnston, Malcolm Emmott, Charles E. G. C.
Assheton, Ralph Cayzer, Sir Charles (Chester, City) Emrys-Evant, P.V
Astbury, Lieut.-Com. Frederick Wolfe Cayzer, Maj. Sir H. R. (P'rtsm'th, S.) Entwistle, Cyril Fullard
Astor, Viscountess (Plymouth, Sutton) Cazalet, Thelma(Islington, E.) Erskine-Bolst, Capt. C. C. (Blk'pool)
Atholl, Duchess of Cazalet, Capt. V. A. (Chippenham) Essenhigh, Reginald Clare
Bailey, Eric Alfred George Chamberlain, Rt. Hn. Sir J. A. (Birm., W.) Evans, David Owen (Cardigan)
Barclay-Harvey, C. M Chamberlain, Rt. Hon. N. (Edgbaston) Fielden, Edward Brocklehurst
Beauchamp, Sir Brograve Campbell Chapman, Sir Samuel (Edinburgh, S.) Foot, Dingle (Dundee)
Beaumont, M. W. (Bucks., Aylesbury) Clarke, Frank Foot, Isaac (Cornwall, Bodmin)
Bennett, Capt. Sir Ernest Nathaniel Clarry, Reginald George Fox, Sir Gifford
Bernays, Robert Cobb, Sir Cyril Fuller, Captain A. G
Blinded, James Cook, Thomas A. Galbraith, James Francis Wallace
Boulton, W. W. Cooke, Douglas Ganzoni, Sir John
Bowater, Col. Sir T. Vansittart Copeland, Ida George, Major G. Lloyd (Pembroke)
Bower, Commander Robert Tatton Croft, Brigadier-General Sir H. Glyn, Major Sir Ralph G. C
Bowyer, Capt. Sir George E. W Crookshank, Capt. H. C. (Gainsb'ro) Goff, Sir Park
Bracken, Brendan Croom-Johnson, R.P Goldie, Noel B
Braithwaite, J. G. (Hillsborough) Cross, R. H. Goodman, Colonel Albert W.
Brass, Captain Sir William Crossley, A. C Granville, Edgar
Briscoe, Capt. Richard George Culverwell, Cyril Tom Grattan-Doyle, Sir Nicholas
Broadbent, Colonel John Dalkeith, Earl of Graves, Marjorie
Brocklebank, C. E. R. Davidson, Rt. Hon, J. C. C. Grenfell, E. C. (City of London)
Brown, Ernest (Leith) Davies, Edward C. (Montgomery) Griffith, F. Kingsley (Middlesbro', W.)
Grimston, R.V Maitland, Adam Russell, Alexander West (Tynemouth)
Gritten, W. G. Howard Makins, Brigadier-General Ernest Russell, R. J. (Eddisbury)
Gunston, Captain D. W. Mallalieu, Edward Lancelot Rutherford, John (Edmonton)
Hacking, Rt. Hon. Douglas H. Manningham-Buller, Lt.-Col. Sir M. Rutherford, Sir John Hugo (Liverp'l)
Hamilton, Sir R. W. (Orkney & Zetl'nd) Margesson, Capt. Rt. Hon. H. D. B Salmon, Sir Isidore
Hanbury, Cecil Mason, Col. Glyn K. (Croydon, N.) Samuel, Rt. Hon. Sir H. (Darwen)
Harris, Sir Percy Mayhew, Lieut.-Colonel John Samuel, M. R. A. (W'ds'wth, Putney)
Hartland, George A. Mellor, Sir J. S. P. Sanderson, Sir Frank Barnard
Haslam, Henry (Horncastle) Mills, Major J. D. (New Forest) Savery, Servington
Headlam, Lieut.-Col. Cuthbert M. Molson, A. Hugh Eisdale Shakespeare, Geoffrey H.
Heilgers, Captain F. F. A. Morris, John Patrick (Salford, N.) Shute, Colonel Sir John
Hepworth, Joseph Morris-Jones, Dr. J. H. (Denbigh) Simon, Rt. Hon. Sir John
Herbert, Major J. A. (Monmouth) Morrison, G. A. (Scottish Univer'ties) Smiles, Lieut.-Col. Sir Walter D.
Herbert, Capt. S. (Abbey Division) Morrison, William Shepherd Somervell, Sir Donald
Hoare, Lt.-Col. Rt. Hon. Sir S. J. G. Muirhead, Lieut.-Colonel A. J. Southby, Commander Archibald R.J.
Hope, Capt. Hon. A. O. J. (Aston) Munro, Patrick Spears, Brigadier-General Edward L.
Hore-Belisha, Leslie Nation, Brigadier-General J. J. H. Spencer, Captain Richard A.
Hornby, Frank Nicholson, Godfrey (Morpeth) Spender-Clay, Rt. Hon. Herbert H.
Howitt, Dr. Alfred B. O'Connor, Terence James Stanley, Rt. Hon. Lord (Fylde)
Hudson, Capt. A. U. M. (Hackney, N.) O'Neill, Rt. Hon. Sir Hugh Stanley, Rt. Hon. Oliver (W'morland)
Hudson, Robert Spear (Southport) Ormsby-Gore, Rt. Hon. William G.A. Stourton, Hon. John J.
Hume, Sir George Hopwood Orr Ewing, I. L. Strauss, Edward A.
Hunter, Capt. M. J. (Brigg) Owen, Major Goronwy Sueter, Rear-Admiral Sir Murray F.
Hunter-Weston, Lt.-Gen. Sir Aylmer Patrick, Colin M. Sugden, Sir Wilfrid Hart
Inskip, Rt. Hon. Sir Thomas W. H. Peake, Osbert Sutclife, Harold
Jackson, Sir Henry (Wandsworth, C.) Peat, Charles U. Tate, Mavis Constance
James, Wing-Com. A. W. H. Penny, Sir George Taylor, C. S. (Eastbourne)
Janner, Barnett Percy, Lord Eustace Thomas, Rt. Hon. J. H. (Derby)
Joel, Dudley J. Barnato Perkins, Walter R. D. Titchfield, Major the Marquess of
Johnstone, Harcourt (S. Shields) Petherick, M. Tufnell, Lieut.-Commander R. L.
Jones, Sir G. W. H. (Stoke New'gton) Peto, Sir Basil E. (Devon, Barnstaple) Turton, Robert Hugh
Kerr, Lieut.-Col. Charles (Montrose) Pickthorn, K. W. M. Wallace, Captain D. E. (Hornsey)
Kerr, Hamilton W. Pownall, Sir Assheton Ward, Lt.-Col. Sir A. L. (Hull)
Keyes, Admiral Sir Roger Procter, Major Henry Adam Ward, Irene Mary Bewick (Wallsend)
Kirkpatrick, William M. Pybus, Sir John Ward, Sarah Adelaide (Cannock)
Knox, Sir Alfred Radford, E. A. Warrender, Sir Victor A.G.
Lambert, Rt. Hon. George Raikes, Henry V. A. M. Watt, Major George Steven H.
Leech, Dr. J. W. Ramsay, Capt. A. H. M. (Midlothian) Wayland, Sir William A.
Leighton, Major B. E. P. Ramsay, T. B. W. (Western Isles) Wedderburn, Henry James Scrymgeour-
Lennox-Boyd, A. T. Ramsbotham, Herwald Whiteside, Borras Noel H.
Lewis, Oswald Rankin, Robert Williams, Charles (Devon, Torquay)
Lindsay, Noel Ker Rea, Walter Russell Williams, Herbert G. (Croydon, S.)
Lister, Rt. Hon. Sir Philip Cunlifie- Reid, James S. C. (Stirling) Wilson, Lt. Col. Sir Arnold (Hertf'd)
Llewellin, Major John J. Reid, William Allan (Derby) Wilson, Clyde T. (West Toxteth)
Lovat-Fraser, James Alexander Remer, John R. Winterton, Rt. Hon. Earl
Mabane, William Rhys, Hon. Charles Arthur U. Withers, Sir John James
MacAndrew, Major J. O. (Ayr) Roberts, Aied (Wrexham) Young, Rt. Hon. Sir Hilton (S'v'noaks)
MacDonald, Rt. Hon. J. R. (Seaham) Roberts, Sir Samuel (Ecclesall) Young, Ernest J. (Middlesbrough, E.)
Macdonald, Sir Murdoch (Inverness) Robinson, John Roland
Macdonald, Capt. P. D. (I. of W.) Ropner, Colonel L. TELLERS FOR THE NOES.
McKie, John Hamilton Ross Taylor, Walter (Woodbridge) Sir Walter Womersley and Major George Davies.
McLean, Major Sir Alan Rothschild, James A. de
McLean, Dr. W. H. (Tradeston) Ruggles-Brise, Colonel Sir Edward

Question, "That those words be there inserted in the Bill," put, and agreed to.