HC Deb 18 December 1935 vol 307 cc1906-14

Motion made, and Question proposed, "That this House do now adjourn."—[Commander Southby.]

10.52 p.m.

The SECRETARY for MINES (Captain Crookshank)

I think it will suit the convenience of the House, and certainly will be fitting, that I should take this opportunity of making a not very long statement from this bench with regard to the present situation in the mining industry. We have been for some time concerned with a wage dispute in one of our great industries, and I know that this can be said without fear of contradiction—that the case which has been presented for increased wages for the mine workers has a large measure of support in the public Press, and in the country, and was reflected in this House in the Debate which we had last week. I want to make it clear at the start that of course this is a dispute between the two parties concerned in the industry. All along the Government has been in the position of a mediator. I myself on behalf of the Government have repeatedly met representative owners, representative men, officials of the owners' organisation, officials of the Mineworkers Federation, and several times the members of the Executive of the Mineworkers' Federation.

And then it has been my business to put first to one side and then to the other side the views of the other party. I think that I can put it best perhaps by saying that the negotiations have been carried on just now through me rather than by me. But while there had been one earlier meeting of officials of both sides at which the owners informed the men of the action that they were taking with a view to raising the proceeds, it was not until yesterday that a more formal meeting was held when representative coalowners met representatives of the men to report the progress that they had made. I understand that the discussions yesterday were carried on with regard to various aspects and, as was stated in the communiqu. to the Press last night, which was, I gather, an agreed statement, the owners reported to the representatives of the men the efforts that they had made to increase prices of coal as a means to an increase of wages. The statement said: The owners regretted that at the moment the response to their requests for increases in prices under existing contracts had not been as satisfactory as they bad hoped. Under present circumstances the most that they could say was that in every district an increase of wages would take place as from 1st January, the amount and method of application of such advances to be determined by the parties in the districts. The workmen's representatives were dissatisfied with the position as stated by the owners, and the owners' representatives undertook, at the request of the workmen's representatives, to ask the districts to decide and intimate at the earliest possible moment for the information of the Mineworkers' Federation representatives particulars of the offers which they were prepared to make. It was understood that a further meeting would be held at an early date. That was the brief statement which was published last night. This morning the Executive of the Mineworkers' Federation of Great Britain came to see me at their request to report, as I said in reply to a question to the hon. Gentleman the Member for South Croydon (Mr. H. G. Williams) this afternoon, on the situation in the light of yesterday's meeting, and the main suggestion that they made to the Government was that money should be found or guaranteed from public funds for miners' wages until such time as the selling schemes might have an effect upon wages. I saw the Executive of the Mineworkers' Federation of Great Britain again this evening, and I made to them a statement on behalf of the Government. With the respect which is due to this House, I felt that I must take the opportunity of the Adjournment Motion to-night—the earliest opportunity available to me—of putting before hon. Members the statement which I then made. It was to this effect: The Government is not prepared to adopt the suggestion made by the executive of the Mineworkers' Federation of Great Britain that a subsidy should be granted from public funds temporarily to augment wages in the mining industry, nor the alternative suggestions of a similar kind which have been made, namely, a direct loan from public funds or a Government guarantee for a loan raised from other sources. The Government is pleased to note that a meeting has been held between representative coalowners and representatives of the Mineworkers' Federation of Great Britain; it hopes that this method of discussion will be continued and widened; and that it will not again be necessary for the Secretary for Mines to act as intermediary between the parties. Nevertheless, the Government does not propose to disassociate itself from the subsequent developments, with which the Secretary for Mines will remain constantly and closely in touch, and the Government will use its good offices to assist the coalowners in their endeavours to secure voluntarily from big consumers increases in price for the specific purpose of increasing wages. It may be pointed out that a very substantial advance has been made recently in three matters of the greatest importance to the mineworkers. These are:

  1. (a) The organisation of the selling of coal on lines acceptable to the Government and in such a way as to improve the proceeds of the industry with advantage to the wage position has been promised by the end of June.
  2. (b) Actual contact between representative employers and I the Mineworkers' Federation of Great Britain has been secured.
  3. (c) An increase in wages in every district with effect from the 1st January next has been promised.
The Government hopes that the Executive Committee of the Mineworkers' Federation of Great Britain will draw the attention of the Delegate Conference to the very grave responsibility which it will assume, both in relation to the workers in the minefields and to the country as a whole, if it should fail to allow the full investigation of the offer made by the owners yesterday. That was the statement which I made this afternoon on behalf of His Majesty's Government. I myself do not think that, as the Delegate Conference was only adjourned until to-morrow and will be sitting again, it will be wise for me to discuss all the questions involved. I would merely say this to the House with regard to the three points specifically mentioned in the statement, that, as to the first, the Government believe that their long-term policy to centralise the selling of coal—a policy which will lead to improved organisation in the selling of coal from top to bottom—is the biggest contribution made for many years towards an improvement in the wages position.

It being Eleven of the Clock, the Motion for the Adjournment lapsed, without Question put.

Motion made, and Question proposed, "That this House do now adjourn."—[Captain Margesson.]

Captain CROOKSHANK

As regards the second point, the Government have brought pressure to bear upon the owners to meet the miners and have succeeded in a few weeks in converting the non-possumus attitude of the coalowners into a positive one, with the result that there was a meeting between representatives of the coalowners and the Mineworkers' Federation to discuss the position, yesterday. As regards the third point, the owners at the meeting yesterday gave an assurance, set out in the official communiqué which I have quoted, of an increase in wages in all districts on 1st January. If the Mineworkers' Federation through their Delegate Conference take the drastic action of precipitating a stoppage in the coal industry, they will prejudice the possibility of bringing more money into the proceeds of the industry and also lose the opportunity of the increased wages now offered to them. In the interests of themselves as well as the interests of the whole country, I most sincerely hope that they will think long before they take any final line which would prejudice that.

That is the statement that I thought it was right to put before the House as soon as I could, and having done that, I have discharged what I felt to be my duty to-night.

11.2 p.m.

Mr. ATTLEE

The statement which the hon. and gallant Member has just read to the House brings this country face to face with a grave industrial crisis. This is not a mere matter of a quarrel between two sides in a particular industry. It is a vital matter which concerns the whole economic life of the country. The Executive of the Miners' Federation, men who have been dealing with this matter with the greatest possible patience, have carefully examined the statement and find it unsatisfactory. The just claims of the miners have not been met, and a delegate meeting has been called for to-morrow morning to decide whether or not notices shall be handed in. The ballot vote in the coalfield has shown how strongly the vast majority of the miners are behind this claim—a claim for a uniform advance of 2s. a day for adults and 1s. a day for boys, and also for a national agreement.

This brings us to a very serious position. The Minister said that no one could doubt the overwhelming sympathy of the people of this country with the miners' claim. That has been expressed in public by public men, in the Press and on the Floor of this House. There is a widespread feeling throughout the country that the miners have had a rough deal, and public opinion in this country must be taken into account. I think, too, there is a realisation throughout the country that this is not a question of a struggle between two sections in a trade. There is a, vital question behind it, of which the Government must take note. It is the question of what is to be the treatment by the people of this country of the men on whose work the industrial life of the country depends.

I want to deal with one or two points in the Minister's statement. In the first place, no subsidy has been asked for in the sense implied in the Minister's statement. What has been asked is that there should be an anticipation of the increased revenues which the Government claim will accrue to the industry as a result of these developments—an advance to cover an immediate increase. I do not think that that is unreasonable. Secondly, despite the opinion expressed on both sides of this House and in the other House, that the two national bodies should be brought together, they have not yet been brought together. There has not been negotiation on a national basis. Certain coalowners, but not the bulk of them, who can speak for the Mining Association, have met the Mineworkers' Federation's representatives. It is no use saying that pressure has been brought to bear on the owners to meet the Mineworkers' Federation, as if the two were on exactly the same level. The Mineworkers' Federation have shown their willingness to meet the representatives of the owners, although they are not fully represented. The Mining Association have not met the miners.

Granting the merits of the long-term policy of the Government it is perfectly clear that it cannot affect the immediate situation. It will take months to work out. There has been no firm offer for a uniform increase of wages. There has been a suggestion that there will be or may be an increase of varying amount in different districts. That does not meet the miners' claim. It is remarkable that on this question there has been evidence of a willingness of consumers to face the fact that the miners have a claim to a livelihood and are willing to consider an increase in prices, but it is conditional on an assurance that the miners are going to get it. In fact a uniform advance in wages is really a condition precedent to getting the consent of the consumers of this country to an increase of prices. The Minister appeals to the miners to think again. I ask the Government to think again before they plunge this country into a struggle the repercussions of which no one can tell. If the Government are right in their anticipation that by their efforts increased revenue is going to flow into the industry, the advance required is very small, the risk of loss is very small; but if this country is going to be plunged into a great struggle, the loss is certain and will be immense. The miners have been very patient; they have been patient for years. This matter comes up within a few days of Christmas; the miners' demand was made in April.

There has been a long delay in dealing with the matter. The Government must have known how urgent and vital it was to the country, and if the Government allow this matter to drift into an industrial strife, they will have to answer to public opinion which, I believe, will say that they ought never to have allowed it to arise. It is no use saying that they are going to do something a good time hence. This demand has been made for a long time. The miners have been patient, and have the backing of public opinion in this country. They have the backing of people on the other side, besides that of the organised workers of the country. I believe they have behind them the bulk even of the consumers. The people are behind the miners and a very heavy responsibility will rest on the Government if they do not take action to stop this terrible calamity.

11.10 p.m.

Mr. G. HALL

I think we have reasonable ground for complaint against the Prime Minister in connection with this matter. He has not even heard from the executive of the Mineworkers' Federation their case in the matter, notwithstanding that repeated applications have been made for him to meet the executive. While the Secretary for Mines has been in touch with both sides, it must be remembered that he is not the Prime Minister. We feel that the case of the miners is so urgent and important that the Prime Minister ought to have made himself acquainted at first hand with the facts from those who are capable of dealing with the matter. Notwithstanding the importance of the foreign situation, we must not forget that this matter of the mines dispute affects millions of persons who are directly connected with the mining industry and if a stoppage takes place it will affect the whole industrial life of the nation. My right hon. Friend has referred to the fact that the Government are not entirely blameless for the delay in this matter. On 16th April they were made acquainted with the situation and from April to October the only contribution made by the Government to deal with the situation was the sending of two letters to the executive of the mineworkers' association.

Here again, in this dispute we see the owners' strategy and they have the Government on their side. There was a remarkable Debate in this House, as in another place, on Wednesday last. Insistence upon a national agreement and a uniform increase of wages between all districts was heard from every side—both from the miners representatives and from those who spoke on behalf of the mineowners. In addition, the public mind has been prepared for increased prices, if there is a guarantee that the increase of prices will pass to the miners as an increase in wages. The terms read by the Secretary for Mines are just a shadow without any substance. There is no guarantee. My right hon. Friend dealt with the question of subsidy. Let me deal with the question of selling agencies—selling agencies in July next year, and even then there is no guarantee in the statement that the proceeds, if any of the selling agencies will mean increased wages to the miners. The miners have asked for a universal increase of 2s. and there can be no answer to it. This statement certainly does not meet their request.

The hon. and gallant Gentleman also referred to contact between the representatives of the Mining Association and the representatives of the miners. These were not negotiations. The parties were called together to hear a statement from the owners—nothing more and nothing less. Can the hon. Member give any guarantee that in the course of proceedings which must take place, even under the long-term programme, negotiations will take place between the executive of the Mineworkers' Federation and the Mining Association as such? I think these questions will be put at the conference to-morrow, and they should be answered by someone on behalf of the Government in readiness for the replies which will be made to-morrow. As far as the increase in wages is concerned, here we are at a crucial point in these negotiations and yet the negotiating body on behalf of three-quarters of a million miners have not yet heard from the mineowners as to what the increases are to be. What they are told is to go back to the districts. Well, we have been back in the districts from 1926 to the present time.

The hon. Member for North Leeds (Mr. Peake) has referred to the effect of district negotiations upon other districts. He was under no illusion. It is very evident that the Government have more confidence in the coalowners than some of the coalowners have in their own body. The hon. Member must know that the offer outlined in this statement, district by district, will not be a uniform offer—there is the difficulty of the exporting districts. He knows that where a large proportion of the coal is exported, the increase upon inland coal must be two or three times that of the increase in those districts that are selling and producing coal mainly for export purposes. This statement on behalf of the Government cannot meet the case which has been put by the miners. This statement simply deals with a temporary increase. We want something permanent. It does not deal with this very important question of deficiency. It would take too much time to deal with that subject now but it may be brought out in the Debate on Friday. Then there is the question of ratio. I would mention that each district, as a result of the ratio in the agreements existing, would be entitled to 1s. 8d. per ton before the miners would be entitled to any increase at all. It would work for the sole purpose of keeping this increased profit for the mineowners—and the House can then see the value of the statement which has been submitted.

Let me repeat that the miners expect a uniform offer on a national basis. The Government should see that that offer is forthcoming. This offer is entirely unsatisfactory. The feeling of the conference this afternoon, despite what the Secretary for Mines has said, was definitely in favour of fixing a date for the tendering of notices. The Government alone can assist. The Prime Minister, notwithstanding his very heavy engagements, must come into this struggle. The miners of the country look to him to come in and assist us. I would refer to the last paragraph in the statement which the Secretary of Mines read out in which he referred to the responsibility of the miners. May I say that not only has the delegate conference a very grave responsibility but the Government has a grave responsibility as well, both in relation to the workers in the minefields and the country as a whole. If the Government fail to take the opportunity which now presents itself to settle this difficulty between the miners and the mine owners, then the Government will be lacking in their duty, and the responsibility is theirs.

Question put, and agreed to.

Adjourned accordingly at Twenty-one Minutes after Eleven o'Clock.