HC Deb 02 April 1935 vol 300 cc298-300

8.55 p.m.

Sir A. KNOX

I beg to move, in page 123, line 16, after "may," to insert: acting with the concurrence of a majority of his advisers. The object of this Amendment is to limit the dictatorial powers of the Secretary of State. We shall have various Secretaries of State in the years to come, and I think it would be an advantage if they could give their decisions regarding rules for the Indian Army with the concurrence of their advisers. There is a truism that "If a murder is committed, better it should be committed in daylight than dark." There are a certain number of people, at present Indian army officers, who are more likely to get justice if decisions regarding rules affecting the Indian Army were made by the Secretary of State with the concurrence of his advisers.

Sir S. HOARE

I do not know what the hon. and gallant Member means by reference to murder.

Sir A. KNOX

I mean that some regulations or rules might be made which would be very disadvantageous for officers in the Indian Army, and there is less chance of such rules being made if the Secretary of State acted in concurrence with his advisers. It seems quite plain.

Sir S. HOARE

Even so, I do not see the application of my hon. and gallant Friend's simile. Be that as it may, I am not myself clear that the Indian Army itself wants this proposal. I am ready to insert the Amendment in the Bill, but I have had no evidence of such a desire. If the Indian Army wants it I am ready to insert it. Has my hon. and gallant Friend any knowledge about the feeling of the Indian Army on the subject?

Sir A. KNOX

It is quite impossible for me to say. I am not in a position to say, but as an ex-officer of the Indian Army I should have thought it was the sort of thing they would like. If I was still serving it is what I would like.

Mr. ATTLEE

One is rather in a difficulty about this Amendment, because one does not know who the advisers would be. I cannot see the point of the Amendment. I gather from the Mover that it is an advantage when murdered if there are several accessories before the fact.

Mr. DONNER

As the Secretary of State says he has no objection to the Amendment, will he consider it again before Report

8.59 p.m.

Sir H. CROFT

This Bill involves possibly very considerable change in the rules and regulations affecting the Indian Army, and I think my hon. and gallant Friend who moved the Amendment was probably speaking with the sympathy of a great many. I have had two or three gentlemen who have served in the Army and have referred this matter to me. Their view is that it would be safer, not necessarily with the present Secretary of State but with some future Secretary of State, that any changes in the rules should be made with the concurrence of his advisers. Will my right hon. Friend consider the matter before the Report stage?

Sir A. KNOX

At the present time there is an India Council at the India Office, but it is being done away with and the Secretary of State has his advisers to take the place of the India Council.

9.0 p.m.

Sir S. HOARE

I do not wish at all to oppose an Amendment of this kind, but I protest against the way in which it has been moved. It is quite unnecessary for the hon. and gallant Gentleman to make the kind of charges that he made in connection with it. I think he would better expedite our proceedings if he did not make charges of that kind. After what my hon. and gallant Friend the Member for Bournemouth (Sir H. Croft) has said, I am quite ready to accept the Amendment.

Sir A. KNOX

I would like an explanation of the right hon. Gentleman's statement. I did not make any charge. I merely made a semi-jocular remark about "If a murder is committed." Injustices do take place. It is our duty to see that injustices do not take place.

Sir S. HOARE

All I can say is that I cannot congratulate my hon. and gallant Friend on his sense of humour.

Amendment agreed to.

Clause, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clauses 225 to 228 ordered to stand part of the Bill.