HC Deb 03 May 1934 vol 289 cc451-3
1. Mr. BATEY

asked the Minister of Labour if he is aware that a notice was issued, on 5th December, 1933, to reserve pay cases in the county of Durham, notifying them that when they received reserve pay on 1st January, 1934, it would be treated as wages for that week and no transitional payment would be paid; whether the reserve pay was received by the applicant or any member of the household; and will he take steps to introduce legislation to put an end to this system?

The MINISTER of LABOUR (Sir Henry Bettorton)

I understand that it is the practice of the Durham Commissioners to treat reserve pay paid quarterly as if it were wages for the week in which it is received. Ordinarily, but not invariably, this means that there is no transitional payment for that week, and any cases of hardship receive special consideration. The effect of the practice is to leave out of account a substantial portion of the reserve pay. The answer to the last part of the question is in the negative.

Mr. BATEY

Then we are to understand from the reply to the last part of the question that the Government have no intention of trying to remedy this state of affairs, but that it is their intention to impoverish this class of people as much as they can?

Sir H. BETTERTON

The hon. Gentleman is now raising a point which we discussed at considerable length in Committee the other day. I have nothing to add to what I said then.

3. Mr. BATEY

asked the Minister of Labour the amount of transitional payments in the county of Durham, excluding the boroughs, since October, 1931, and the amount which would have been paid if no means test had been in operation; and can he give the amounts for the same period for the county of Durham including the boroughs?

Sir H. BETTERTON

Since November, 1931, a total of approximately £12,502,000 has been paid by way of transitional payments at Employment Exchanges situated in the county of Durham. This sum is exclusive of amounts paid through associations of employed persons. It is not possible to furnish figures excluding boroughs, as no records are kept at local offices distinguishing payments to applicants according to whether they reside in borough or county areas. As regards the amount which would have been paid if no means test had been in operation, I regret that it is not practicable to maket a reliable estimate for particular areas.

Mr. BATEY

Is the Minister not able to give an estimate? Have we not had estimates already of the amount that would have been paid, if the means test had not been in operation?

Sir H. BETTERTON

We have had an estimate for the country as a whole, but that has been done by certain statistical methods which would not provide reliable estimates for each district separately, because the margin of error might be so great.

6. Mr. NEIL MACLEAN

asked the Minister of Labour whether he will state the regulations under which local authorities determine the amounts to be paid to claimants for transitional payments?

Sir H. BETTERTON

The principles on which local authorities are to proceed in the assessment of transitional payments are determined, not by regulations made by me but by the provisions of the Unemployment Insurance (National Economy) (No. 2) Order, 1931, as modified by the Transitional Payments (Determination of Need) Act, 1932.

Mr. MACLEAN

Is it not the case that the operation of these Acts is by means of regulations issued by the right hon. Gentleman?

Sir H. BETTERTON

No, Sir, the only regulations issued by me deal entirely with administrative procedure and machinery. They do not deal at all with the point raised by the hon. Member.

Mr. MACLEAN

Is it not the case that in the National Economy Act no details are set out as to the manner in which this particular provision is to be applied by the local bodies?

Sir H. BETTERTON

Yes, Sir, but it is a matter for the local bodies themselves and not for me.

Mr. MACLEAN

In what part of the Act is there power to carry out this particular function?

Sir H. BETTERTON

If the hon. Gentleman will look at the Act, he will see.

9. Mr. MANDER

asked the Minister of Labour if he will consider the advisability of suggesting to all public assistance committees that they should re-examine all cases during the first week in July, with a view to bringing them into line with the change in unemployment insurance benefits?

Sir H. BETTERTON

I assume the hon. Member refers to applications for transitional payments. The local authorities are, I think, fully aware of the proposed changes in the benefit rates. I will, however, issue a circular to them drawing their attention to these changes in good time before they come into force.