HC Deb 08 March 1934 vol 286 cc2010-2
16. Mr. McKEAG (for Mr. HOLDS-WORTH)

asked the Minister of Health what answer he has given to the representations made to him by the National Conference of Friendly Societies regarding the maladministration by the public assistance committee of the London County Council of Section 48 of the Poor Law Act, 1930, resulting in members of friendly societies having their sickness benefit wholly included in error when incomes were being assessed or the needs test being applied; and whether, in view of what has happened in London, he will issue a special instruction on the subject to all public assistance committees?

Sir H. YOUNG

The legal issues raised in these representations are now under consideration.

Mr. McKEAG

Is it proposed to take any steps to make payments to members of these friendly societies of the money of which they have been deprived by this action on the part of the public assistance committees concerned?

Sir H. YOUNG

If the hon. Member will consider my answer he will see that I can add nothing to-day, but perhaps he will put the question down again.

51. Mr. TINKER (for Mr. KIRK-WOOD)

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he is aware that a number of local authorities in Scotland are ignoring Section 105 (1) of the National Health Insurance Act, 1924, which provides that public assistance committees, in granting out-door relief to a person entitled to receive benefit under the National Health Insurance Act shall not take into consideration the first 7s. 6d. of health insurance benefit in assessing incomes for relief; what action he intends to take to compel local authorities to conform to the law; how many local authorities have been communicated with by the Department of Health; and how many have given effect to the Act of 1924?

The UNDER-SECRETARY of STATE for SCOTLAND (Mr. Skelton)

The Department of Health for Scotland have communicated with 21 local authorities regarding their failure to observe the requirements of Section 105 (1) of the National Health Insurance Act, 1924. In the case of 14 the failure related to particular cases which have now been satisfactorily adjusted. Of the remainder five have formally agreed to observe the requirements of the section and with two the Department are still in correspondence.

Mr. BUCHANAN

What steps are the Government taking to get local authorities to carry out the law; and why should all these negotiations, extending over years, be carried on with local authorities to get them to observe the ordinary law?

Mr. SKELTON

The facts as I stated in the answer are that almost without exception local authorities are carrying out the law. My hon. Friend is aware that one of the difficulties was that this particular provision was not in the Poor Law of Scotland but was in the Insurance Act. We are remedying that by including it in the new Poor Law Bill.

Mr. BUCHANAN

What steps are being taken to see that the authorities which are not carrying out the law are compelled to do so; and is there any redress for anyone who has been refused this money over a period of time because the authorities have not carried out the law?

Mr. SKELTON

With regard to the individual case, any person who is aggrieved may appeal against inadequate relief; but where the authority, on the other hand, passes a formal resolution that they will not have regard to the law, that is dealt with first by negotiations, and, if there is resistance, it will be dealt with by the necessary legal steps. So far we have settled all the outstanding cases.

Mr. LOGAN

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that authorities have no right under Section 105 (1) to make this deduction of 7s. 6d., and that if a person does not state the amount of his income he can be imprisoned for giving false information?

Mr. SKELTON

The hon. Gentleman is dealing with the Poor Law of England. I am dealing with Scotland.

Mr. LOGAN

Am I not right in saying that the National Health Insurance Act, 1924, applied to Scotland as well as to England?

Mr. SKELTON

That is so, but not the proceedings to which the hon. Gentleman referred.

Mr. RHYS DAVIES

May we take it that in future these local authorities will be told to inform themselves of the National Health Insurance scheme, and that if they do not carry out their duties will the Secretary of State appoint a Commission to see that they do?

Mr. SKELTON

Under the law of Scotland that is not possible, nor is it in my opinion necessary. If the hon. Gentleman will read my answer, he will see how satisfactorily the matter has been dealt with.

Mr. BUCHANAN

I give notice that on the first available opportunity I will raise this matter, and also the question of subsidies on housing.