CLAUSE 21.—(Power of county councils to light roads.) (Hansard, 28 June 1934)

Mr. STANLEY
I beg to move, in page 16, line 27, at the end, to add: (2) Before exercising the power conferred on them by this section a county council shall give notice to the road lighting authority specifying the road, or part of a road, which in the opinion of the county council should be illuminated or better illuminated with any particular requirement in that behalf which in their opinion ought to be satisfied, and shall not exercise the said power unless the road lighting authority have at the expiration of a reasonable time after receipt of the notice, failed to provide such illumination or better illumination as is requisite for the adequate lighting of the road or part of a road, or to comply with any reasonable requirement of the county council in that behalf. Any question arising under this subsection as to what lighting is adequate, or as to what length of time is reasonable, or as to whether any requirement is reasonable, shall be determined by the Minister. (3) Subject as hereinafter provided, all expenses incurred by the council of a county under this section shall be expenses for general county purposes. 1342 Provided that if a road lighting authority provide lighting for the county roads within their area and have not failed in any year to comply with a notice given under the last foregoing sub-section the council of the county shall pay to the road lighting authority, if that authority so request, the amount raised by the council of the county in that area in respect of expenses incurred by them under this section in that year. (4) In this section the expression "road lighting authority" means, as respects any county road or part thereof, the council or meeting on whom any of the powers referred to in sub-section (1) of this section are conferred as respects that road or that part thereof. During the Committee stage I accepted a new Clause moved by my hon. Friend the Member for Stone (Sir J. Lamb), which gave the county councils powers in certain circumstances to carry out lighting works which they thought were not being satisfactorily carried out by the lighting authority. I warned my hon. Friend at the time that it would probably be necessary to make an Amendment in order to safeguard the rights of other local authorities. Since the Committee stage, as a result of a conference which I held with the representatives of all the local authorities, the Association of Municipal Corporations, the Urban District Councils Association and the Rural District Councils Association, and the County Councils Association, agreement has been reached upon the Amendment I now move, which is thought by those respective associations fully to safeguard the rights of their constituent members.

§ Mr. EDWARD WILLIAMS
Do I understand, from what the Minister has said, that the urban district authorities were consulted as well as the County Councils Association, and that they are all satisfied?

Mr. STANLEY
Yes.

§ Mr. LAWSON
When was that arrangement arrived at? I have had complaints, a resolution and a circular, only this morning.

Mr. STANLEY
My hon. Friend no doubt received the complaint from a particular urban authority. He will realise that there must be a certain time lag. I myself saw the gentlemen concerned on Monday or Tuesday, and the small committee only reached final agreement late last night. There would, therefore, not have been time for individual local authorities to know.

§ Mr. ANNESLEY SOMERVILLE
On behalf of the Non-County Boroughs Association I would like to thank my hon. Friend the Minister for the manner in which he has met the natural apprehension of the authorities concerned. Under the original Bill the non-county boroughs and the urban district councils feared that they were in danger of having to pay twice over for additional lighting. They have been delivered from that fear by this Amendment.

§ Mr. JAMES REID
I would like to know whether this Clause is intended to apply to Scotland. I have heard nothing from any local authority in Scotland as to whether it is for the Clause or against it. On the drafting the Clause has no application to Scotland at all, because it employs entirely English phraseology. Of course the Scottish courts would have to try to translate it unless there is a special Sub-section inserted to the effect that the Clause is not to apply to Scotland. I would like, first of all, to be told whether it is intended that the Clause shall apply to Scotland. If it is not intended to apply, I should like an assurance that that will be put down in black and white. If it is to apply, I would like to know whether any representations have been received from Scottish local authorities, or whether indeed they have ever been told that this Clause has been inserted in the Bill.

Mr. STANLEY
I am very much obliged to my hon. Friend for raising the point. It was intended that the Clause should apply to Scotland, and it would have been necessary at some sub sequent stage to put down an adaptation Clause to carry that into effect. It was difficult to do so before I had reached the agreement to which I have referred. If my hon. Friend feels that there is any danger that the Scottish authorities do not know of this, and therefore have not had a chance of expressing their opinion, I will certainly take steps immediately to bring the matter to their attention and ask their views upon it before I proceed any further.