§ Section nineteen of the Finance Act, 1920, as amended by section twenty-two of the Finance Act, 1924 (which makes provision for a deduction in respect of relatives taking charge of widowers' or widows' children, and in respect of a person acting as housekeeper to a widower or widow), shall be extended so as to apply to a person resident with an unmarried person in the capacity of housekeeper.—[Mr. Lunn.]
§ Brought up, and read the First time.
§ 6.56 p.m.
§ Mr. LUNNI beg to move, "That the Clause be read a Second time."
At one time, I believe, the only exemption that was given was in the, case of a wife, but in 1920 we provided that a relative living with a widower or widow, and in charge of children, should have the same exemption. In 1924 we extended that so as to provide that exemption should be provided in the case of any person acting as housekeeper for a widower or widow even though there were no children. Now I am moving that this allowance should be provided in the case of a housekeeper to an unmarried man or woman. In my opinion the best housekeeper is a good wife. I have no doubt on that point as far as I am concerned, but the hon. Gentleman himself may disagree with me. He is one of the 1422 persons for whom I am seeking to provide. He has not taken a wife yet. Whether he has a housekeeper or not, I do not know. I hope he has, and a good one, and I hope he will be able to say he is prepared to make this concession because he has a good housekeeper. He is not alone. I do not say that there are large numbers of cases—I do not think there are—but we all know cases of young men or women who have lived all their lives with their parents, who have now passed away. They have always had a home. They have never been in lodgings, and they prefer to continue in the home that they have known all their lives.
I want to ask the hon. Gentleman what will be the cost of applying the Clause and, more than that, I want him to say that the Government will give this exemption and grant this small extension of the principle to persons who happen to be housekeepers to single men or women. There are large numbers of young men and young women in all kinds of occupations, not necessarily black-coated occupations, who have a housekeeper and do not feel inclined, or do not feel they ought, to get married. They may have good reasons for not getting married, but I do not know what they are. I hope that the Chancellor or the 1423 Financial Secretary will grant this extension of the principle, the cost of which will, I think, be very small.
§ 7.1 p.m.
§ Sir WILLIAM DAVISONI have not often the pleasure of supporting a Motion from the opposite side of the House, but I do so with all sincerity in the present instance. The law with regard to this allowance is quite indefensible. The present position is that some people who employ a housekeeper may claim the allowance and others may not, and the test is, not whether they require an allowance, but whether in the past they have been married and have since become either a widow or a widower. That seems a most absurd test to apply. These allowances under the Income Tax law ought to apply to people who are in a particular position of hardship. I have two cases from my own knowledge which will show the absurdity of the present law. One case is that of a batchelor aged 82, who enjoys an income of some £750 a year. He employs a housekeeper but is not entitled to housekeeper's allowance. The other case is that of a widow whose income is well over £10,000 a year. She employs a housekeeper and, because she is a widow, she is entitled to an allowance of £50. Does not that set forth the absurdity of this present system of tax?
I was less ambitious than the hon. Gentleman opposite, because, in the Clause that I have set down, I only proposed that these allowances should be given to batehelors who had at the commencement of the year of assessment reached the age of 65 years or upwards, or to bachelors or spinsters who were infirm. I only draw attention to that Clause in case the Chancellor says that he is not able to go the whole hog; if so, I hope that he will consider my Clause if he is not able to accept the Clause of my hon. Friend opposite.
I should like to read two sentences from a letter which I received last week. I do not know the lady at all. She says:
I am 75 years of age and have a very limited income. I live alone, and need care and attention. I cannot afford to pay a suitable person to live with me, my small income being taxed to the hilt. I sincerely hope that your proposal to enable poor spinsters like myself to be put in the same position as rich widows will be crowned with success. Life to unmarried women such as I am is cruelly hard, and there are many others who suffer in the same way.1424 I have given the case of the rich widow with £10,000 a year who gets an allowance of £50, and here is the case of a poor spinster who describes her condition as "terribly hard." I hope that these instances will wring compassion from the Chancellor, and that if he is unable to reconcile the allowance with common-sense he will at any rate agree to the Clause which I have suggested, if he is not able to accept the Clause moved by the hon. Gentleman opposite.
§ 7.5 p.m.
§ Mr. HORE-BELISHAI am very grateful for the sage and parental advice given me by the hon. Gentleman who moved this Clause. To accept it would, of course, be a violation of those canons which my right hon. Friend is observing and intends to continue to observe in the distribution of any surplus; that those who made sacrifies in 1931 are to have the first claim upon any money that is available. I think the Committee will appreciate that. The present position with regard to these allowances is that they are given to a widow or widower with or without children, and to an unmarried person maintaining a widowed mother or other female relative to look after his young brothers or sisters. The Committee will therefore see that the principle of the housekeeper's allowance is the maintenance of an old home. The hon. Gentleman seeks to do away with this principle and to abolish the present restrictions. He would therefore make it possible for anyone, whether a young man or the old gentleman whose circumstances have just been described to us, to maintain a female person to look after him in his flat or house, as the case may be.
I am sure that the Committee will see that it would be difficult to introduce a principle such as that into the Income Tax code. It does not seem to me that it would be fair to give a man an allowance for the purpose of having a female person to look after him and to deny that same allowance to a man who lives in his club or a hotel or makes other arrangements for having his worldly comforts attended to. It does not seem to me—and I am sure that the Committee will concur—to be a right or proper thing to accept a Clause such as this. I should like to point out to the hon. Member for South Kensington (Sir W. Davison) that this 1425 Clause is in different terms from his own. His Clause, which appears later on the Order Paper, is far more restrictive: there the man has to be infirm or aged. That seems to me to be in quite a different sphere from that proposal in the Clause which we are now discussing, and which I hope I have convinced the Committee that it could not be proper to accept.
§ Sir W. DAVISONI understand that my Clause is not going to be called. Would the Chancellor accept a Clause with those restrictions? I am sure that my hon. Friend opposite, in view of what you have said, would agree to accept the Clause that is down in my name.
§ Mr. HORE-BELISHAI hoped that I had the concurrence of my hon. Friend when I opened my remarks with a recollection of the canons on which the Chancellor was proceeding in the distribution of any surplus which might be available. I said that any money that was available had to go first of all to those who had made sacrifices. Therefore, quite apart from the merits; of my hon. Friend's Clause, I am sure he will appreciate that it cannot be accepted.
§ Question put, "That the Clause be read a Second time."
§ The Committee divided: Ayes, 62; Noes, 273.
1427| Division No. 278.] | AYES. | [7.10 p.m. |
| Adams, D. M. (Poplar, South) | Granfell, David Rees (Glamorgan) | Maxton, James |
| Attlee, Clement Richard | Griffith, F. Kingsley (Middlesbro'. W.) | Nathan, Major H. L. |
| Banfield, John William | Griffiths, George A. (Yorks, W. Riding) | Rathbone, Eleanor |
| Bevan, Aneurin (Ebbw Vale) | Griffiths, T. (Monmouth, Pontypool) | Rea, Walter Russell |
| Brown, C. W. E. (Notts., Mansfield) | Groves, Thomas E. | Roberts, Aled (Wrexham) |
| Cape, Thomas | Grundy, Thomas W. | Salter, Dr. Alfred |
| Cocks, Frederick Seymour | Hall, George H. (Merthyr Tydvll) | Sinclair, Maj. Rt. Hn. Sir A.(C'thness) |
| Cove, William G. | Hamilton. Sir R. W.(Orkney & Zetl'nd) | Smith, Tom (Normanton) |
| Cripps, Sir Stafford | Harris, Sir Percy | Thorne, William James |
| Curry, A. C. | Janner, Barnett | Tinker, John Joseph |
| Daggar, George | Jones, Henry Haydn (Merioneth) | Wedgwood, Rt. Hon. Josiah |
| Davies, David L. (Pontypridd) | Jones, Morgan (Caerphilly) | West, F. R. |
| Davies, Rhys John (Westhoughton) | Kirkwood, David | Williams, David (Swansea, East) |
| Davison, Sir William Henry | Lawson, John James | Williams, Edward John (Ogmore) |
| Edwards, Charles | Leonard, William | Williams, Dr. John H. (Llanelly) |
| Evans, David Owen (Cardigan) | Llewellyn-Jones, Frederick | Williams, Thomas (York. Don Valley) |
| Evans, Capt. Ernest (Welsh Univ.) | Logan, David Gilbert | Wilmot, John |
| Evans, R. T. (Carmarthen) | Lunn, William | Young, Ernest J. (Middlesbrough, E.) |
| Foot, Isaac (Cornwall, Bodmin) | McEntee, Valentine L. | |
| Gardner, Benjamin Walter | McGovern, John | TELLERS FOR THE AYES.— |
| George, Megan A. Lloyd (Anglesea) | Maclean, Nell (Glasgow, Govan) | Mr. John and Mr. C. Macdonald. |
| Greenwood, Rt. Hon. Arthur | Mainwaring, William Henry | |
| NOES. | ||
| Acland-Troyte, Lieut.-Colonel | Brown, Col. D. C. (N'th'l'd., Hexham) | Cross, R. H. |
| Albery, Irving James | Brown, Brig.-Gen. H. C. (Berks., Newb'y) | Davidson, Rt. Hon. J. C. C. |
| Alexander, Sir William | Buchan-Hepburn, P. G. T | Davies, Edward C. (Montgomery) |
| Allen, Lt.-Col. J. Sandeman (B'k'nh'd) | Burghley, Lord | Dawson, Sir Philip |
| Allen, William (Stoke-on-Trent) | Burgin, Dr. Edward Leslie | Denman, Hon. R. D. |
| Anstruther-Gray, W. J. | Burnett, John George | Despencer-Robertson, Major J. A. F. |
| Applin, Lieut.-Col. Reginald V. K. | Burton, Colonel Henry Walter | Dickie, John P. |
| Apsley, Lord | Butt, Sir Alfred | Dixon, Rt. Hon. Herbert |
| Aske, Sir Robert William | Cadogan, Hon. Edward | Drewe, Cedric |
| Baillie, Sir Adrian W. M. | Campbell, Sir Edward Taswell (Brmly) | Drummond-Wolff, H. M. C. |
| Baldwin, Rt. Hon. Stanley | Campbell-Johnston, Malcolm | Duckworth, George A. V. |
| Baldwin-Webb, Colonel J. | Cassels, James Dale | Duncan, James A. L. (Kensington, N.) |
| Balfour, George (Hampstead) | Cayzer, Sir Charles (Chester City) | Dunglass, Lord |
| Balniel, Lord | Cayzer, Maj. Sir H. R. (Prtsmth., S.) | Eales, John Frederick |
| Barclay-Harvey, C. M. | Cazalet, Thelma (Islington, E.) | Edmondson, Major Sir James |
| Barrle, Sir Charles Coupar | Chamberlain, Rt. Hon. N.(Edgbaston) | Ellis, Sir R. Geoffrey |
| Beauchamp, Sir Brograve Campbell | Chapman, Col. R.(Houghton-le-Spring) | Elmley, Viscount |
| Beaumont, M. W. (Bucks., Aylesbury) | Clarke, Frank | Emmott, Charles E. G. C. |
| Beaumont, Hon. R. E. B. (Portsm'th, C.) | Clarry, Reginald George | Emrys-Evans, P. V. |
| Belt, Sir Alfred L. | Clayton, Sir Christopher | Essenhigh, Reginald Clare |
| Bernays, Robert | Cobb, Sir Cyril | Fleming, Edward Lascelles |
| Bilndell, James | Cochrane, Commander Hon. A. D. | Fox, Sir Gifford |
| Borodale, Viscount | Colfox, Major William Philip | Fraser, Captain Sir Ian |
| Bossom, A. C. | Colville, Lieut.-Colonel J. | Fremantle, Sir Francis |
| Boulton, W W. | Cook, Thomas A. | Galbraith, James Francis Wallace |
| Bower, Lieut.-Com. Robert Tatton | Cooke, Douglas | Ganzonl, Sir John |
| Bowyer, Capt. Sir George E. W. | Cooper, A. Duff | Gillett, Sir George Masterman |
| Boyd-Carpenter, Sir Archibald | Copeland, Ida | Gilmour, Lt.-Col. Rt. Hon. Sir John |
| Braithwaite, J. G. (Hillsborough) | Courthope, Colonel Sir George L. | Gluckstein, Louis Halle |
| Brass, Captain Sir William | Cranborne, Viscount | Goodman, Colonel Albort W. |
| Broadbent, Colonel John | Crooke, J. Smedley | Gower, Sir Robert |
| Brocklebank, C. E. R. | Crookshank, Col, C. de Windt (Bootle) | Graves, Marjorie |
| Greene, William P. C | McLean, Dr. W. H. (Tradeston) | Salt, Edward W. |
| Grimston, R. V. | Macquisten, Frederick Alexander | Sandeman, Sir A. N. Stewart |
| Guinness, Thomas L. E. B. | Maltland, Adam | Savery, Samuel Servington |
| Gunston, Captain D. W. | Makins, Brigadier-General Ernest | Selley, Harry R. |
| Guy, J. C. Morrison | Manningham-Buller, Lt.-Col. Sir M. | Shaw, Helen B. (Lanark, Bothwell) |
| Hacking, Rt. Hon. Douglas H. | Margesson, Capt. Rt. Hon. H. D. R. | Shaw, Captain William T. (Forfar) |
| Hales, Harold K. | Marsden, Commander Arthur | Simmonds, Oliver Edwin |
| Hamilton, Sir George (Ilford) | Martin, Thomas B. | Simon, Rt. Hon. Sir John |
| Hannon, Patrick Joseph Henry | Mason, Col. Glyn K. (Croydon, N.) | Skelton, Archibald Noel |
| Hartington, Marquess of | Mayhew, Lieut.-Colonel John | Smiles, Lieut.-Col. Sir Walter D. |
| Hartland, George A. | Meller, Sir Richard James | Smith, Sir Robert (Ab'd'n & K'dine, C.) |
| Haslam, Sir John (Bolton) | Mills, Major J. D. (New Forest) | Smithers, Sir Waldron |
| Head lam, Lieut.-Col. Cuthbert M. | Mitchell, Harold (Br'tf'd & Chisw'k) | Somerset, Thomas |
| Hellgers, Captain F. F. A. | Mitchell, Sir W. Lane (Streatham) | Somervell, Sir Donald |
| Henderson, Sir Vivian L, (Cheimsford) | Monsell, Rt. Hon. Sir B. Eyres | Somerville, Annesley A. (Windsor) |
| Heneage, Lieut.-Colonel Arthur P. | Moreing, Adrian C. | Southby, Commander Archibald R. J. |
| Hills. Major Rt. Hon. John Waller | Morgan, Robert H. | Spencer, Captain Richard A. |
| Hore-Bellsha, Leslie | Morris, Owen Temple (Cardiff, E.) | Spens, William Patrick |
| Hornby, Frank | Morris-Jones, Dr. J. H. (Denbigh) | Stanley, Rt. Hon. Lord (Fylde) |
| Horsbrugh, Florence | Morrison, G. A. (Scottish Univer'ties) | Stanley, Hon. O. F. C. (Westmorland) |
| Kowitt, Dr. Alfred B. | Morrison, William Shepherd | Stones, James |
| Hudson, Capt. A. U. M. (Hackney, N.) | Munro, Patrick | Storey, Samuel |
| Hume, Sir George Hopwood | Nall-Cain, Hon. Ronald | Stourton, Hon. John J. |
| Hunter, Capt. M. J. (Brigg) | Nation, Brigadier-General J. J. H. | Strauss, Edward A. |
| Hurst, Sir Gerald B. | O'Donovan, Dr. William James | Strickland, Captain W. F. |
| Inskip, Rt. Hon. Sir Thomas W. H. | O'Neill, Rt. Hon. Sir Hugh | Stuart, Lord C. Crichton- |
| Jackson, Sir Henry (Wandsworth, C.) | Patrick, Colin M. | Sueter, Rear-Admiral Sir Murray F. |
| James, Wing-Com. A. W. H. | Peake, Captain Osbert | Sugden, Sir Wilfrid Hart |
| Joel, Dudley J. Barnato | Pearson, William G. | Summersby, Charles H. |
| Ker, J. Campbell | Penny, Sir George | Sutcliffe, Harold |
| Kerr, Lieut.-Col. Charles (Montrose) | Petherick, M. | Tate, Mavis Constance |
| Kerr, Hamilton W. | Peto, Sir Basil E. (Devon, Barnstaple) | Taylor, Vice-Admiral E. A. (P'dd'gt'n, S.) |
| Kimball, Lawrence | Peto, Geoffrey K. (W'verh'pt'n, Bilston) | Thompson, Sir Luke |
| Knox, Sir Alfred | Pike, Cecil F. | Titchfield, Major the Marquess of |
| Lamb, Sir Joseph Quinton | Potter, John | Todd, Lt.-Col. A. J. K. (B'wick-on-T.) |
| Latham, Sir Herbert Paul | Pownall, Sir Assheton | Touche, Gordon Cosmo |
| Law, Sir Alfred | Pybus, Sir Percy John | Train, John |
| Law, Richard K. (Hull, S. W.) | Radford, E. A. | Tree, Ronald |
| Lees-Jones, John | Raikes, Henry V. A. M. | Tufnell, Lieut.-Commander R. L. |
| Lennox-Boyd, A. T. | Ramsay, Alexander (W. Bromwich) | Turton, Robert Hugh |
| Levy, Thomas | Ramsay, Capt. A. H. M. (Midlothian) | Wallace, John (Dunfermline) |
| Liddall, Walter S. | Ramsay, T. B. W. (Western Isles) | Ward, Irene Mary Bewick (Wallsend) |
| Lindsay. Noel Ker | Ramsbotham, Herwaid | Wardlaw-Milne, Sir John S. |
| Little, Graham-, Sir Ernest | Rankin, Robert | Warrender, Sir victor A. G. |
| Llewellin, Major John J. | Rawson, Sir Cooper | Wayland, Sir William A. |
| Lloyd, Geoffrey | Reed, Arthur C. (Exeter) | Wedderburn, Henry James Scrymgeour. |
| Lockwood, Capt. J. H. (Shipley) | Held, David D. (County Down) | Wells, Sydney Richard |
| Loder, Captain J. de Vere | Reid, James S. C. (Stirling) | Whiteside, Borras Noel H. |
| Loftus, Pierce C. | Reid, William Allan (Derby) | Whyte, Jardine Bell |
| Lovat-Fraser, James Alexander | Remer, John R. | Willoughby de Eresby, Lord |
| Lumley, Captain Lawrence R. | Rickards, George William | Windsor Cilve, Lieut.-Colonel George |
| Mabane, William | Roberts, Sir Samuel (Ecclesall) | Wise, Alfred R. |
| MacAndrew, Capt. J. O. (Ayr) | Ropner, Colonel L. | Withers, Sir John James |
| McCorquodale, M. S. | Rosbotham, Sir Thomas | Womersley, Sir Walter |
| MacDonald, Rt. Hon. J. R. (Seaham) | Ross Taylor, Walter (Woodbridge) | Worthington. Dr. John V. |
| MacDonald, Malcolm (Bassetlaw) | Ruggles-Brise, Colonel E. A. | Young, Rt. Hon. Sir Hilton (S'v'noaks) |
| Macdonald, Sir Murdoch (Inverness) | Runciman, Rt. Hon. Walter | |
| McEwen, Captain J. H. F. | Runge, Norah Cecil | TELLERS FOR THE NOES.— |
| McKeag, William | Russell, Albert (Kirkcaldy) | Sir Frederick Thomson and Lieut. |
| McKie, John Hamilton | Russell, Hamer Field (Sheffield, B'tslde) | Colonel Sir A. Lambert Ward. |
| McLean, Major Sir Alan | Rutherford, John (Edmonton) |
§ The DEPUTY-CHAIRMAN (Captain Bourne)The next Amendment which I select is the one in the name of the hon. Member for East Lewisham (Sir A. Pownall) at the bottom of page 1363 of the Amendment Paper.