§ Mr. McGOVERN (by Private Notice)asked the Prime Minister if he will give time for the discussion of the Motion which stands in the name of the hon. Member for Shettleston (Mr. McGovern), and asks
that Harry McShane, Philip Neville Harker and John Samuel Williams be heard at the Bar of the House of Commons in support of their Petition which was presented to the House on Monday, the 26th February, 1934, and which sets forth certain demands on behalf of the unemployed"?
§ The PRIME MINISTER (Mr. Ramsay MacDonald)The whole problem of unemployment is engaging the constant attention of the Government, and the Bill now before Parliament is designed to make possible an improvement in the lot of those who are unfortunately unemployed. The views of all sections of the people are made known in this House through their elected representatives, and in the opinion of the Government no advantage would be gained by acceding to the hon. Gentleman's request.
§ Mr. MAXTONMay I ask the Prime Minister if it is not a fact that, while various interests are represented in this House, it is usual for any important interest in this country which is specially affected by any legislation to have access to representatives of the Government in order to state their case from their point of view; and will he not concede to the representatives of the unemployed men 928 the same right and privileges as would be conceded to any business in this country?
§ The PRIME MINISTERThat is not quite the question which has been put to me, but in regard to it I would refer my hon. Friend to the letter which I addressed to the body responsible for getting up and controlling this march.
§ Mr. MAXTONDoes the Prime Minister not realise that that letter offers to myself and my hon. Friends who are Members of this House rights of access to the Government? You do not need to offer us that—we have got that as a right, as elected representatives of the House. We are asking for access on behalf of the unemployed men and their representatives, themselves, on the same terms as brewers, distillers, bankers, or anyone should have access to the Government.
§ Mr. HANNONMay I ask whether there is any precedent in this House for the appearance at the Bar of representatives of any interest in this country on the same conditions as are suggested here?
§ Mr. MAXTONYes, there are. Read the story of the House.
§ The PRIME MINISTERThat was why I said the supplementary question was not on the same point as the original question, and it was the original question which I answered.
§ Mr. ATTLEEIs it not the fact that the money interests, as represented by the City of London, have the right to be heard at the Bar of the House, and is there any reason why a new precedent should not be created?
§ Mr. MAXTONIt is not a new precedent.
§ The PRIME MINISTERI am afraid that is a matter of historical knowledge, and it does not quite bear out the explanation which the hon. Gentleman gave. The City of London representation here is not on account of its monied interests, but on account of certain historical facts.
§ Mr. McGOVERNI want very seriously to ask the Prime Minister this question. He himself has refused to hear the representations of this organised body, representative of organisations in this country, the Cabinet have refused, and now he is refusing to give them access to the House 929 itself to present their case to the Government here. Does he mean to say that he has definitely decided on closing every constitutional approach for unemployed men and women in this country—What are you laughing at? Are the unemployed men and women going to have the opportunity, in a proper constitutional way, to present their case here at the seat of Government to you as Prime Minister and to the members of the Government? Have you decided to close down every constitutional approach?
§ The PRIME MINISTERQuite the contrary. Every constitutional approach, every approach provided for by the Constitution, and particularly by the fact that this House is a representative Assembly containing representatives of every interest, including Members perfectly capable of doing their duty by making representations on every grievance from which they think people in the country suffer—that constitutional approach, those constitutional doors, are open by virtue of the fact that my hon. Friend himself is a Member of this House.
§ Mr. McGOVERNI want to ask the Prime Minister this. Had he to sacrifice every principle and vestige of independence in order to retain his position as head of the Government in this House, and has he definitely—
§ Mr. SPEAKERI think the hon. Member is wandering entirely from his point.
§ Mr. McGOVERNNo, I am not wandering at all. I am simply putting to the Prime Minister that he himself—
§ Mr. SPEAKERrose—
§ Mr. McGOVERNJust a minute, Mr. Speaker. [HON. MEMBERS: "Order!"] What are you shouting at?
§ Mr. SPEAKERThe hon. Member submitted a question to me which I decided to allow him to put to the Prime Minister. What he is now asking the Prime Minister has nothing to do with the question he submitted to me.
§ Mr. MAXTONIt surely is legitimate for us to ask the Prime Minister, having regard to his own particular association with the working classes of this country, his own demand for the receiving of the voice of the workers in this House, that he should now, in his present position as head of a National Government, give 930 very special consideration to the cry of men who to a large extent were responsible for placing him at the head of this Government. I ask him, having regard to the position that he holds to-day, to concede to these men what is a citizen right, granted to nearly every other section of the community. The answer that I am here or that the hon. Member for Shettleston (Mr. McGovern) is here is no answer. Every person, every interest—[HON. MEMBERS: "Speech!"] I ask the Prime Minister and the Government to reconsider this refusal, which in my experience has never been put up towards any other section of the community until now it is put up against the unemployed people, whose lives and livelihood we are discussing to-day.
§ Mr. BUCHANANI beg to ask leave to move the Adjournment of the House for the purpose of discussing a definite matter of urgent public importance, namely:
the refusal to-day of the Prime Minister to grant any facilities whatever for the unemployed hunger marchers to voice their grievances either to himself, the Cabinet, or the House.
§ The pleasure of the House not having been signified, Mr. SPEAKER called on those Members who supported the Motion to rise in their places, and, not less than 40 Members having accordingly risen—
§ The Motion stood over, under Standing Order No. 8, until Eleven o'Clock this evening pursuant to the Order of the House of 19th December relative to the Unemployment Bill (Allocation of Time).