HC Deb 08 November 1933 vol 281 cc177-81

May I ask the Prime Minister what will be the business for the rest of the Session, and what is the object of the Motion which stands in his name on the Order Paper?

The PRIME MINISTER (Mr. Ramsay MacDonald):

The Motion to which the right hon. Gentleman refers is, I take it, the Motion relating to the suspension of the Eleven o'Clock Rule. It is put down jist as a precautionary measure.

The business will be as follows:

Friday: Debate on the position of unemployed persons under the National Health Insurance Scheme. This was promised before the House rose.

Monday: Debate on a Motion of Censure to be tabled by the Leader of the Opposition, on the subject of Disarmament.

Tuesday: Remaining stages of the Local Government Bill (Lords), the British Nationality and Status of Aliens Bill (Lords), and the Protection of Birds Bill (Lords).

Wednesday: Consideration of Motions to approve the following Orders: Bacon (Import Regulation) Order, 1933; Sea- fishing Industry (Regulation of Landing) Order, 1933; Additional Import Duties Orders Nos. 17, 18 and 19.

Thursday: Consideration of outstanding business and of any Lords Amendments which may be received from another place to the Road and Rail Traffic Bill and to any other Bills.

During the week it is proposed to consider Amendments to the Standing Orders which have been recommended by the Technical Committee appointed by Mr. Speaker. The Amendments, which are almost entirely of a drafting nature, will be on the Order Paper to-morrow.

It is anticipated that all outstanding business will be concluded in time to allow of Parliament being prorogued on Friday, 17th November. The new Session will be opened on Tuesday, 21st November.


May I ask the Prime Minister two questions? First of all, with regard to the Debate on Friday, how is the Debate to be taken? Will it be on the Adjournment, or will there be a definite Motion on this question of unemployed persons? My second question is in connection with the Amendments to the Standing Orders. I would like to ask the Prime Minister whether it will be possible for anybody else to put down Amendments to the Standing Orders, or is that confined to this Committee; and will the right hon. Gentleman also state who will be in charge of the Amendments on behalf of the Government?


I understand that Amendments will be in order to the proposed Amendments which the House will discuss at a time to be arranged. The Leader of the House will be in charge of the principal Amendments. I ought to say, Mr. Speaker, that the question of Amendments is in your control, and not in anybody else's. The Debate on the National Health Insurance Scheme concerns the position of unemployed persons, and it was requested by the Opposition before the House adjourned for the Summer Recess. I understand that before the day a Motion will be put down on the subject in the name of the Leader of the Opposition.


Do I understand that the Protection of Birds Bill has been definitely taken up by the Government?




May I ask you, Mr. Speaker, a question with regard to the consideration of the Standing Orders? I take it that we shall only be allowed to move Amendments to the Amendments that are being proposed, and that we cannot bring up fresh ones? That is the point on which I want to be clear.


That is my point.


It is rather difficult for me to rule on the matter before I see what it is proposed to do. If any Amendments are put before me, I shall have to consider whether they are in order or not.


I take it that it would be in order to put on the Paper other Amendments than those which are already being recommended by the Committee. It is rather important, because we may have quite a number of rather important Amendments which we should like to put down.


I see no objection whatever to Members putting down Amendments. Whether they are in order is another thing.


Will it be in order to put down Amendments to the Standing

Orders as to the time the House meets and adjourns?


The hon. Member can put them down.


With regard to the Health Insurance Debate, will there be any opportunity of amending the Resolution? In other words, will it be put down in order that it may be amended if it is not satisfactory?


So far as putting Amendments on the Paper is concerned, the ordinary Rules of the House will be followed.


I know that the ordinary Rules govern it, but it is almost impossible to amend a Resolution on the morning of the Debate,. I am asking whether there will be an opportunity to put down Amendments.


The Resolution will be handed in to-night and will be on the Paper in the morning.

Motion made, and Question put, That the Proceedings on Government Business be exempted, at this day's Sitting, from the provisions of the Standing Order (Sittings of the House)" —[The Prime Minister.]

The House divided: Ayes, 255; Noes, 41.

Division No. 295.] AYES [3.24 p.m.
Acland-Troyte, Lieut.-Colonel Castlereagh, Viscount Elmley, Viscount
Adams, Samuel Vyvyan T. (Leeds, W.) Cautley. Sir Henry S. Emmott, Charles E. 0. C.
Agnew, Lieut.-Com. P. G. Chapman, Col. R. (Houghton-le-Spring) Emrys-Evans, P. V.
Albery, Irving James Chorlton, Alan Ernest Leofric Erskine, Lord (Weston-super-Mare)
Allen, William (Stoke-on-Trent) Chotzner, Alfred James Essenhigh, Reginald Clare
Astbury, Lieut.-Com. Frederick Wolfe Clarke, Frank Evans, Capt. Arthur (Cardiff, S.)
Bailey, Eric Alfred George Cochrane, Commander Hon. A. D. Evans, R. T. (Carmarthen)
Baillie, Sir Adrian W. M. Collins, Rt. Hon. Sir Godfrey Everard, W. Lindsay
Baldwin, Rt. Hon. Stanley Colville, Lieut.-Colonel J. Falie, Sir Bertram G.
Balniel, Lord Cook, Thomas A. Fielden, Edward Brocklehurst
Beauchamp, Sir Brograve Campbell Cooper, A. Duff Foot, Isaac (Cornwall, Bodmin)
Benn, Sir Arthur Shirley Copeland, Ida Fremantle, Sir Francis
Bennett, Capt. Sir Ernest Nathaniel Courtauld, Major John Sewell Ganzoni, Sir John
Betterton, Rt. Hon. Sir Henry B. Crooke, J. Smedley Gauit, Lieut.-Col. A. Hamilton
Birchall, Major Sir John Dearman Crookshank, Col. C. de Windt (Bootle) Gilmour, Lt.-Col. Rt. Hon. Sir John
Blindell, James Cross, R. H. Gledhill, Gilbert
Borodale, Viscount. Crossley, A. C. Glossop, C. W. H.
Bossom, A. C. Culverwell, Cyril Tom Gluckstein, Louis Halls
Boulton, W. W. Curry, A. C. Glyn, Major Ralph G. C.
Bowyer, Capt. Sir George E. W. Davies, Maj. Geo. F.(Somerset, Yeovil) Goff, Sir Park
Braithwaite, J. G. (Hillsborough) Davison, Sir William Henry Goldie, Noel B.
Briscoe, Capt. Richard George Dawson, Sir Philip Goodman, Colonel Albert W.
Broadbent, Colonel John Denman, Hon. R. D. Graham, Sir F. Fergus (C'mb'rl'd, N.)
Brocklebank, C. E. R. Despencer-Robertson, Major J. A. F. Grattan-Doyle, Sir Nicholas
Brown, Ernest (Leith) Doran, Edward Gretton, Colonel Rt. Hon. John
Browne, Captain A. C. Dower, Captain A. V. G. Gunston, Captain D. W.
Buchan-Hepburn, P. G. T. Dugdale, Captain Thomas Lionel Guy, J. C. Morrison
Burgin, Dr. Edward Leslie Duggan, Hubert John Hacking, Rt. Hon. Douglas H.
Burnett, John George Dunglass, Lord Hamilton. Sir R. W. (Orkney & Zetl'nd)
Caine, G. R. Hall- Eady, George H. Hanley, Dennis A.
Campbell, Sir Edward Taswell (Brinly) Eden, Robert Anthony Hannon. Patrick Joseph Henry
Campbell-Johnston, Malcolm Edmondson, Major A. J. Harbord, Arthur
Caporn, Arthur Cecil Elliot, Rt. Hon. Walter Harris, Sir Percy
Hartland, George A. Makins, Brigadier-General Ernest Savery, Samuel Servington
Harvey, George (Lambeth, Kenningt'n) Mander, Geoffrey le M. Shakespeare, Geoffrey H.
Haslam, Sir John (Bolton) Margesson, Capt. Rt. Hon. H. D. R. Shaw, Helen B. (Lanark, Bothwell)
Heilgers, Captain F. F. A, Martin, Thomas B. Shepperson. Sir Ernest W.
Hepworth, Joseph Mason, David M. (Edinburgh, E.) Shute, Colonel J. J.
Herbert, Capt. S. (Abbey Division) Mayhew, Lieut.-Colonel John Simon, Rt. Hon. Sir John
Holdsworth, Herbert Mills, Sir Frederick (Leyton, E.) Sinclair, Maj. Rt. Hn. Sir A. (C'thness)
Hore-Belisha, Leslie Mills, Major J. D. (New Forest) Smith, Bracewell (Dulwich)
Hornby, Frank Milne, Charles Smith, Louis W. (Sheffield. Hallam)
Horsbrugh, Florence Mitchell, Sir W. Lane (Streatham) Smith. R. W. (Aberd'n & Klnc'dlne. C.
Howard, Tom Forrest Monsell, Rt. Hon. Sir B. Eyres Somerville, Annesley A. (Windsor)
Howitt, Dr. Alfred B. Moore, Lt.-Col. Thomas C. R. (Ayr) Soper, Richard
Hudson, Capt. A. U. M. (Hackney, N.). Morris, John Patrick (Salford, N.) Southby, Commander Archibald R. J
Hudson, Robert Spear (Southport) Muirhead, Lieut.-Colonel A. J. Spencer. Captain Richard A.
Hume, Sir George Hopwood Nation, Brigadier-General J. J. H. Spender-Clay, Rt. Hon. Herbert H.
Hunter, Dr. Joseph (Dumfries) Nicholson, Godfrey (Morpeth) Stanley, Lord (Lancaster, Fylde)
Hurd, Sir Percy Nicholson, Rt. Hn. W. G. (Petersf'ld) Stanley, Hon. O. F. G. (Westmorland)
Hurst, Sir Gerald B. Normand, Rt. Hon. Wilfrid Stevenson, James
Jackson, Sir Henry (Wandsworth, C.) Nunn. William Stewart, J. H. (Fife, E.)
James, Wing-Com. A. W. H. Oman, Sir Charles William C. Stewart, William J. (Belfast, S.)
Joel, Dudley J. Barnato Ormsby-Gore, Rt. Hon. William G. A. Stones, James
Johnstone, Harcourt (S. Shields) Palmer, Francis Noel Storey, Samuel
Jones, Henry Haydn (Merioneth) Pearson. William G. Stourton, Hon. John J.
Jones, Lewis (Swansea, West) Peat, Charles U. Strickland. Captain W. F.
Ker, J. Campbell Percy, Lord Eustace Sueter, Rear-Admiral Murray F.
Kerr, Hamilton W. Petherick, M. Sugden, Sir Wilfrid Hart
Knight, Holford Peto, Geoffrey K.(W'verh'pt'n, Bilston) Sutcliffe. Harold
Knox, Sir Alfred Pickering. Ernest H. Tate, Mavis Constance
Lamb, Sir Joseph Quinton Pike, Cecil F. Taylor, Vice-Admiral E.A.(P'dd'gt'n,S.)
Lambert, Rt. Hon. George Pownall, Sir Assheton Templeton. William P.
Law, Richard K. (Hull, S.W.) Procter, Major Henry Adam Thomas, Rt. Hon. J. H. (Derby)
Leckie. J. A. Pybus, Percy John Todd. A. L. S. (Kingswinford)
Lees-Jones, John Ramsay, Alexander (W. Bromwich) Tryon. Rt. Hon. George Clement
Leigh, Sir John Ramsay, T. B. W. (Western Isles) Ward, Lt.-Col. Sir A. L. (Hull)
Leighton. Major B. E. P. Rankin, Robert Ward, Irene Mary Bewick (Wallsend)
Lennox-Boyd, A. T. Rawson. Sir Cooper Ward, Sarah Adelaide (Cannock)
Levy, Thomas Rea, Walter Russell Warrender, Sir Victor A. G.
Lewis, Oswald Reed, Arthur C. (Exeter) Watt, Captain George Steven H.
Liddall. Walter S. Reld, James S. C. (Stirling) White. Henry Graham
Lindsay, Kenneth Martin (Kilm'rnock) Reld, William Allan (Derby) Whiteside. Borras Noel H.
Lister. Rt. Hon. Sir Philip Cunliffe- Ross Taylor, Walter (Woodbridge) Whyte. Jardine Bell
Lloyd. Geoffrey Runge. Norah Cecil Williams, Charles (Devon, Torquay)
Locker-Lampson, Com. O. (H'ndsw'th) Russell, Albert (Kirkcaldy) Williams. Herbert G. (Croydon, S.)
Loder, Captain J. de Vere Russell, Alexander West (Tynemouth) Wills, Wilfrid D
Lumley, Captain Lawrence R. Russell, Hamer Field (Sheffield, B'tsldel Wilson, Lt.-Col. Sir Arnold (Hertf'd)
Mabane, William Russell, R. J. (Eddisbury) Wilson, G. H. A. (Cambridge U.)
MacAndrew, Lieut.-Col. C. G.(Partick) Rutherford, Sir John Hugo (Liverp'l) Windsor-Clive. Lieut.-Colonel George
MacAndrew, Capt. J. O. (Ayr) Salmon, Sir Isidore Womersley, Walter James
MacDonald, Rt. Hon. J. R. (Seaham) Salt, Edward W. Wood, Rt. Hon. Sir H. Kingsley
Macdonald, Capt. P. D. (I. of W.) Samuel. Sir Arthur Michael (F'nham) Wood, Sir Murdoch McKenzie (Banff)
McKie. John Hamilton Sandeman, Sir A. N. Stewart
McLean, Dr. W. H. (Tradeston) Sanderson, Sir Frank Barnard TELLERS FOR THE AYES.
Magnay, Thomas Sassoon, Rt. Hon. Sir Philip A. G. D. Sir Frederick Thomson and Sir George Penny.
Banfield, John William Hicks, Ernest George Owen. Major Goronwy
Brown. C. W. E. (Notts., Mansfield) Hirst. George Henry Parkinson, John Allen
Buchanan, George Jenkins, Sir William Price. Gabriel
Cape, Thomas Jones, Morgan (Caerphilly) Smith, Tom (Normanton)
Cove. William G. Kirkwood. David Thorne, William James
Daggar, George Lansbury, Rt. Hon. George Tinker, John Josiah
Davies, David L. (Pontypridd) Lawson, John James Wallhead, Richard C.
Davies. Rhys John (Westhoughton) Leonard, William Wedgwood, Rt. Hon. Josiah
Edwards, Charles Logan, David Gilbert Williams, Edward John (Ogmore)
George. Major G. Lloyd (Pembroke) Lunn. William Williams, Dr. John H. (Llanelly)
Graham. D. M. (Lanark, Hamilton) Macdonald, Gordon (Ince) Wilmot, John Charles
Grenfell, David Rees (Glamorgan) McEntee, Valentine L.
Griffiths. T. (Monmouth, Pontypool) McGovern. John TELLERS FOR THE NOES.
Grundy. Thomas W. Maclean, Nell (Glasgow, Govan) Mr. John and Mr. Groves.
Hall, George H. (Merthyr Tydvil) Maxton, James.
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