HC Deb 14 March 1933 vol 275 cc1930-8

Motion made, and Question proposed, That a sum, not exceeding £1,610,000, be granted to His Majesty, to defray the Expense of Works, Buildings, Repairs, and Lands, including Civilian Staff and other Charges connected therewith, which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March, 1934.

11.47 p.m.

Lieut.-Colonel HENEAGE

I should like to draw attention to the hardships that will be incurred by the inhabitants of Mablethorpe and the sea coast of Lincolnshire and holiday makers from Leicester, Nottingham and other Midland towns if one of the proposed actions of the Air Ministry takes place. They propose to take all the available sands between Cleethorpes and Mablethorpe for the purpose of a machine gun range and even at one time proposed to shut off part of the town planning area of Mablethorpe itself. As a result of negotiations I am glad to say they have undertaken not to carry out operations on the range during the months of August. I should like to thank the Under-Secretary for having met us in that way. They have also agreed to shut down the range on Saturdays, Sundays and Bank Holidays, for which I thank them. I should like to suggest that they keep the sands free during July. I recognise the difficulties of the Air Ministry in the matter and so I am sure do the councilors and the inhabitants of Mablethorpe, but the shopkeepers and farmers and agricultural laborers depend on the summer visitors who come to these marvelous sands, the finest in England, and, if they are debarred from coming to them in July, it will create great local hardship. I need hardly stress the importance in this industrial age of allowing fresh air outlets among healthful surroundings to the industrial Midlands during the holiday season. The Air Ministry hitherto have said that they cannot meet us as far as July is concerned. I suggest as a compromise— though I have not the authority of the urban district for doing so— that they should allow us the last 10 days in July in addition to August. I ask it because the August Bank Holiday comes in the first week of August and holiday-makers send their families on before the Bank Holiday, during the last weeks of July. For this purpose they naturally require the use of the sands for then-wives and children.

I also suggest that machine gunning on this part should not take place. The House is probably not aware that the Air Ministry proposes to use these sands for machine gunning as well as bombing and that the bombing takes place outside in the water. If machine gunning is not allowed, it will be quite evident that the sands will be available for the holiday makers. I should also like to suggest that the Air Minister should meet the wishes of the urban district, which have been communicated to him, because these bodies would welcome the Air Force coming to Lincolnshire. It is a great pity that there should arise the present feeling against the Air Force and that it should be accentuated. We wish that the bad feeling which at present exists should die away, and, as far as I possibly can, I will do all in my power to affect this. Having suggested what I consider would meet the wishes of my constituents; I hope very much that the Air Minister will meet us in this matter.

11.57 p.m.

Mr. DUCKWORTH

I must apologies for detaining the Committee at this extremely late hour. The point I wish to raise on this Vote is one which, though purely a local one, is of very considerable interest to many of my constituents. It concerns the vacant land and buildings at Harlescot just outside Shrewsbury, which were occupied from the middle of the War up to March a year ago by the Mechanical Transport Repair Depot of the Department of my right hon. Friend. This depot was established at very considerable expense during the War and doubtless at inflated prices. The property covers nearly 60 acres, and the capital cost of the land and buildings amounted to about £ 550,000. As may be readily imagined, this depot, with an establishment of about 400 men, was a considerable asset both to the town and trade of Shrewsbury, and it came as a very severe blow to the town when, doubtless for very good reasons of economy, it was decided to abandon the depot in March of last year. The blow was to some extent softened by the prospect that the whole of the site might very speedily be put to some other use, but unfortunately the hopes that were held out have been entirely disappointed and the site has remained entirely vacant and unoccupied for the last 12 months.

From the point of view of housing alone, there are no less than 54 buildings, which include 38 houses, which constituted the married quarters, and three houses of a larger type which accommodated the officers. All those houses, together with the other buildings, have now been empty for 12 months. There must by now be very considerable depreciation, as week after week and month after month has gone by. Taking into account the housing shortage which exists in the borough of Shrewsbury and in other towns, it is scarcely surprising that many of my constituents regard the situation as a very unusual case of scarcity in the midst of plenty. In this connection, it is interesting to note that the Ordnance Office at Pembroke Dock is shortly to be moved to Shrewsbury. During January the Assistant Director of Ordnance at Pembroke Dock wrote to the town clerk of Shrewsbury and asked for information as to suitable housing accommodation in the town.

The DEPUTY-CHAIRMAN

Whatever else for which the Air Ministry may be responsible, they are not responsible for Ordnance.

Mr. DUCKWORTH

I bow to your Ruling, Captain Bourne, but I only wish to point out, in reply, that it was stated that there was great difficulty in providing houses, when strangely enough, another Government Department was keeping no less than 40 houses unoccupied just outside the town. I am well aware from the questions which I have put in the past upon this matter that the Air Ministry are anxious to dispose of the whole of the property in one lot, and that hopes have been entertained that it would be purchased by some industrial undertaking. I believe that negotiations have actually been carried out with that end in view, but so far they have been unsuccessful and nothing more has come of them. I admit that there may be very good arguments for trying to dispose of the whole site in this manner if, indeed, a better price can be obtained, and if there is a real likelihood of some industrial undertaking purchasing the site. Doubtless it is only right that a reasonable time should be allowed to elapse and a fair chance given to the policy of disposing of the site in this way. But the present situation cannot be continued indefinitely, because there is another side to the question, and the very considerable depreciation which is involved in keeping the premises unoccupied must be taken into account.

From the information which has been supplied to me locally, I understand that the chances of selling the property to an industrial undertaking are extremely slender. The buildings themselves, other than the houses, are quite unsuitable for industrial purposes, and they will probably have to be demolished and completely rebuilt, and the value in that respect would probably be very negligible. It follows that either extremely advantageous terms should be held out to any intending purchaser, or else some alternative method to dispose of the property should be considered. In view of the time which has elapsed, I seriously suggest to my right hon. Friend that the sale of the property in lots might be considered. At any rate, it would enable the valuable housing accommodation to be put to some use. I shall be very glad if my right hon. Friend can give me some indication as to the attitude of his Department, and of the prospects there may be of disposing of the site and getting it put to some useful purpose.

12 m.

Mr. LEWIS

I want to call attention to the action of the Air Ministry in regard to property they have acquired at Hampstead Heath. It consists of a house and garden, situated at the very highest point of the Heath and pretty nearly in the centre of the Heath. It is, therefore, visible from many parts of the Heath. There is a town planning scheme which affects property adjoining the Heath on different sides, and it covers the land on which the property stands. This scheme has recently been put into operation. The Air Ministry, as a defence service, is not subject to Town Planning Acts and can, if it so wills, disregard a town planning scheme. I submit that that exception was given to them in order that they might not be hampered in works of defence by the operation of a town planning scheme. It was not meant to apply to such a case as this, because this property is not required for the purpose of an aerodrome, or for flying or bombing; it is to be used as the general headquarters and officers' mess for the auxiliary air squadron of the county of Middlesex. In these circumstances the Air Ministry should observe the terms of the town planning scheme, exactly like any other owner would be compelled to do. The London County Council and the Hampstead Borough Council have both protested and have been for some time in negotiation with the Air Ministry on the matter.

The Under-Secretary of State for Air stated in this House last July that no formal undertaking had been given that the terms of the town planning scheme would be observed, but that he hoped a satisfactory solution would be come to. He added that the main proposals in regard to the premises were for the internal adaptation of the house for the purpose for which it was required. The proposals go much further than that, otherwise the town planning scheme would not be affected and the Hampstead Borough Council would not be affected. There is a proposal to erect additional and unsightly buildings. In November of last year the Under-Secretary stated in the House that he was glad that an agreed settlement on the question had been reached, and that the plans of certain additional buildings were to be discussed with the London County Council. I understand that the County Council are still not satisfied with the proposals of the Ministry.

The Minister of Health is in his place, and I hope he will support me in this case. It is useless to bring forward town planning schemes if Government Departments are going to disregard them. The Minister of Health sent out a circular recently to local authorities pointing out the advantages of applying town planning schemes. In effect, the Under-Secretary of State for Air is saying that in the opinion of his Department this particular town planning scheme, which has only just come into operation in Hampstead, is unnecessary and unreasonable, and that he, speaking for the Air Ministry, will not comply with it. That is an attitude which, having regard to the purpose for which the building is required, should not be insisted upon by the Air Ministry. I make an appeal to the Under-Secretary. He has some reputation as a patron of the arts. He is reputed to be a lover of beautiful things. Does he wish his name to go down to posterity as that of a man who is largely responsible for the disfigurement of one of the most beautiful open spaces in London? I realise that the Secretary of State is not in the House and that the Under-Secretary of State must be guarded in his reply, but I hope he will be able to assure us that he will do his best to get the Ministry to abandon the attitude they have taken up and instead to agree to do what any other owner under these circumstances would be compelled to do, namely, to follow the lines of this town planning scheme, which has only just been introduced. I hope that, in taking that attitude, I shall have the support of the Minister of Health.

12.6 a.m.

Mr. LOUIS SMITH

I want to support the appeal made by my hon. and gallant Friend the Member for Louth (Lieut.-Colonel Heneage). I can fully sympathise with those who have used those attractive sandhills at Mablethorpe on the Lincolnshire coast. I represent a constituency that is very much interested, because large numbers of people from Sheffield take their children to these sandhills, and one can fully realise that to find their cricket pitches and so on giving way to bombing practice and machine-gun practice would be rather a shock to them when they go down to these seaside places. The hon. and gallant Member for Louth appealed for restrictions to be put on this bombing practice in the latter part of July each year. I would appeal to the Minister to extend that period from the middle of July to the end of August, because I think that during the few weeks when, in the industrial areas, they look forward to the quiet, peaceful atmosphere of these delightful seaside resorts of Mablethorpe and Sutton, we could, on their behalf, ask the Air Ministry to give them an extra fortnight or so. One feels that it is a sad thing that the quiet and peace of the Lincolnshire coast should be given up to this bombing practice. We are very proud indeed to have the Air Force at Oranwell, and we are wishful to help the Air Force in Lincolnshire in every way possible, but on behalf of those who use these seaside places we appeal to the Secretary of State to do what he can to restrict the nuisance which it would be to have this practice going on during the period I have mentioned.

12.8 a.m.

Sir P. SASSOON

I think the hon. Member who has just sat down, who, in company with the hon. and gallant Member for Louth (Lieut.-Colonel Heneage), has on several occasions during the past year discussed the matter of these ranges at Mablethorpe, will be prepared to admit that we have on every occasion shown the greatest possible good will and desire to meet them on almost every point, but I do not believe that anybody unfamiliar with the whole subject who had been listening to the speech of the hon. and gallant Member for Louth this evening would have had any idea of how kind and considerate we have been to him and the constituents whom he so well represents in this House. He knows all the difficulties, and I do not want to recapitulate them to-night or to weary the House at this late hour by talking about this matter at any great length, but I think the hon. and gallant Member is very ungrateful. He asks if he can have 10 particular days at the end of July, and, although we cannot meet him actually on that point, we are prepared to say that we will consult with the local authorities and the people concerned, and try to arrange our' programme in such a way as to cause the least inconvenience to the townspeople, the inhabitants, and the holiday makers at those very beautiful sands that he has described so lyrically to-night. With regard to the town planning scheme, the hon. and gallant Member said we have taken part of the Mablethorpe town planning area.

Lieut.-Colonel HENEAGE

I said in my speech that they had even at one time proposed to shut off part of the town planning area of Mablethorpe, but I understand they do not propose to do so now.

Sir P. SASSOON

I thought the hon. and gallant Member rather gave the impression to the House that we had encroached on that scheme, but we have not done so at all. I do not think I can say anything more at the moment but reiterate our desire to meet him where we can on this matter. If he will leave it to us we will do the best we can.

With regard to the depot at Shrewsbury, again I do not think I can say anything further. We put that depot in the market with the houses adjoining because we imagined that it would be easier, in these days of financial depression, to get rid of it to some firm, and that the houses would be useful for the employées of a firm. That is the reason why we do not want to separate the houses from the depot. I hope things will get better soon and that we shall have an offer for the depot and the houses. Then there was the question regarding the buildings for 604 Squadron at Heath Brow. I really was unable to follow the hon. Member, because I consider that the situation is on the whole very satisfactory. We had put forward designs for this particular building, a drill hall, but we have now said that we will prepare another design, and only if that design is approved by the London County Council and the Borough Council shall we proceed with it. In those circumstances I think the hon. Member has got a very satisfactory answer to his question.

Mr. LEWIS

That is the first time, as far as I am aware, that that statement has been made publicly. It is quite satisfactory.