ISLE OF MAN (CUSTOMS) BILL. (Hansard, 18 July 1933)

§ Mr. RHYS DAVIES
I have put a few questions to the Financial Secretary to the Treasury, of which he has taken note. I will now proceed to put further questions to him. On Clause 19 (Duties on certain Irish Free State goods), I should like a little explanation. Everyone who knows anything about geography will know that the Isle of Man is nearer to Ireland than to England. Is there any differentiation between the duties on Irish goods entering the Isle of Man and the duties imposed against Irish goods coming into England, Scotland and Wales? On Clause 20 (Repeal of emergency duties on horticultural products), can the Financial Secretary give any 1737 explanation as to the repeal of these emergency duties, and what the effect of these duties has been on the position of the people in the Isle of Man?
So far as I understand the constitutional situation, the Isle of Man is controlled by the Home Office. Although it comes under the jurisdiction of the Home Office, the Treasury deals with the finances of the island. We are, therefore, entitled to ask on this Bill what is the proportion of the total revenue 'of the Isle of Man that comes to the Treasury after deducting the expenses of collecting the duties? This Bill is a repetition of the policy of the Government in imposing duties against all manner of goods going into the Isle of Man, in the same fashion that duties are imposed against the same classes of goods coming into this country. There has been a great division of opinion in this House on the policy of the Government in imposing these duties. The duties have been put on against foreign goods with the avowed object of raising the price of primary products. We have been told that the agricultural and horticultural producer would by these duties be helped to increase his profits. Is it true that the effect of the imposition of these duties in the Isle of Man is the same as the effect upon our own people?
I have come to the conclusion that the more these restrictions, quotas and tariffs are imposed upon goods coming into this country the worse the condition of the people has become, and I should like to know whether the condition of the people in the Isle of Man has improved in comparison with the position of the common people in this country. We are entitled to know whether the opinion of the Members of the House of Keys has been taken on this important issue. It would be a very terrible thing, when we have a National Government, made up of Tories in the main, imposing these duties against foreign goods coming into this country, if the House of Keys, elected by the people of the Isle of Man, were by a majority—being more intelligent than hon. Members opposite—opposed to these duties. Would it be far to impose these duties on an island where the majority of the people may be against the tariff policy of this Government?
Let me pass to my final word. We get the trade and navigation returns showing 1738 how many ships have been put out of action by the tariff policy of this Government, and how the export of coal goes down. In fact, there is a decrease in connection with all our imports and exports owing to the policy of this Government. The hon. Member for Grimsby (Mr. Womersley) laughs, but he helped the other day to pass the Fishing Industry Bill, and was bold enough to tell the House that it was deliberately designed to prevent the people of this country getting cheap fish and in order also to raise the prices of fish coming into this country. If that is the policy of the Government, if it is their intention to raise prices without raising the wages of the working people, we are entitled to ask whether it is fair for this lop-sided Government, a Government which got its majority by very doubtful means, to thrust upon the people of the Isle of Man their own policy when in politics they are so much more intelligent than hon. Members opposite? Again, [...]l these imposts have been put on in order to help the industries of this country, the great industries of gramophones and horticulture. How is the gramophone industry of the Isle of Man going to fare? Are there any manufactures at all which will be helped by the policy of the Government? I have put these straightforward questions to the hon. Member, and I feel sure he will give us an intelligent reply.

§ Mr. HORE-BELISHA
By leave of the House I will try to answer the points put by the hon. Member. Most of his speech was delivered under a misconception; the misconception being that by the exercise of some tyrannical authority we were imposing our policy on the Isle of Man, and dictating to them what Customs Duties they should levy. Let me correct that misconception. No such pressure has been exercised. The Isle of Man enjoys a separate and independent financial existence. It has its own Parliament and although Customs Duties have to be approved by this House of Commons it would be quite without precedent for this House of Commons to interfere with the internal arrangements of the Isle of Man as regards Customs Duties.

§ Mr. DAVIES
Surely it is without precedent that this Government have imposed these duties?

§ Mr. HORE-BELISHA
That is the misunderstanding which I am trying to remove. We have not imposed these duties. These duties have been imposed by the Legislature of the Isle of Man, by its own Government, and we are asked, in accordance with historical practice, to confirm what that Parliament has done. That is our sole responsibility in the matter. That gives an answer to most of the questions put by the hon. Member. What considerations impelled them to adopt a similar method of procedure, to impose similar duties, is a matter within their own cognisance and competence. It would be superfluous for me to try to examine what motives lay behind any action they may have taken, although, naturally, they are guided by what we do in this country. They have adopted our definition of matches. The hon. Member was very much struck by the words used: for the purposes of duties under this Section a match which has more than one point of ignition shall be reckoned as so many matches as there are points of ignition. That was the language employed in our own original Act of Parliament. It has been copied by the Manx legislature, and whatever it may mean here it means there. What it means I cannot say beyond repeating the words I have used. I have no doubt that it is a useful guide to the Customs authorities in exacting their duties. With regard to the imposition of certain duties by order of the Governor, the procedure is on all fours with our own. The Manx authorities have power, by order, to impose duties which are subsequently ratified by the Tynwald, in the same way as our own are ratified. The procedure there is on exactly the same footing. In regard to the Irish duties, of course that has no reference whatever to the Isle of Man. We impose duties on Irish goods in order to exact, as best we can, sums of money which are owing to us. The Isle of Man is not in that position, she is not owed any money, but, nevertheless, she was afraid that her own markets might be glutted with imports from Ireland, and accordingly adopted by resolution certain of the duties which correspond to our duties here.
The last question put related to finance. I find on inquiry that it is almost impossible to answer that question. Some of the Customs duties are collected in the 1740 Isle of Man and are credited to the insular Exchequer direct. I imagine that the duty on most imported goods is paid in this country and that they go into the Isle of Man with a certificate that the duty has been paid here. I am sorry to inform the hon. Member that I have no precise analysis as to how the finances stand because of the difficulties I have mentioned.

§ Sir S. CRIPPS
Can the hon. Member say how that money is accounted for?

§ Mr. HORE-BELISHA
There is a common purse, and we credit to the Isle of Man, and pay to the Isle of Man, a sum of money upon a formula. We say that the proportion of the population is so much, and the consumption of the dutiable article is so much, and, in accordance with that formula, we calculate what is due to them. As the question is of some interest I will undertake to obtain the best analysis of the figures I can and supply them to the hon. Member. I am sorry that I cannot do more at the moment.

§ Mr. R. DAVIES
The hon. Member has told us that a decision was reached in the House of Keys that these Customs duties were to be imposed consequent upon our action. Has he any information to show the majority in favour of these duties?

§ Mr. HORE-BELISHA
No, Sir. I much regret that I have not, and it would be just the same if the question was put in relation to the Dominions. I have no knowledge of the procedure in the Tynwald; all I know is that this has been the result.