§ 44. Mr. T. WILLIAMSasked the Secretary of State for the Colonies if he will make a statement regarding the nature of the conversations that recently took place between his Department and the representative of the European elected members of Kenya; and whether the proposed constitutional changes in Kenya Colony were then discussed?
§ Sir P. CUNLIFFE-LISTERI and my officers make it a regular practice to see unofficial members of Colonial Legislatures when they are in this country. I think it is most important that I should be able to have these conversations; but I am sure the House will agree that the value of such informal conversations would be greatly reduced if they are to be made the subject of Parliamentary questions. As regards the Constitutional position in Kenya I would refer the hon. Member to the answer which I gave to my hon. and gallant Friend the Member for the Drake division (Captain Guest) on the 21st of June, of which I am sending him a copy.
§ Mr. WILLIAMSIs the right hon. Gentleman aware that the leader of the European party in the Kenya Assembly, or whatever it may be termed, gave world publicity to the fact that the Noble Lord was in negotiation with the right hon. Gentleman at that moment, and that a mere Parliamentary question here is months, or at any rate weeks behind any statement made in Kenya; and does the right hon. Gentleman not think that if official or unofficial representatives in Kenya can make such a statement referring to these conversations Members of Parliament here should be permitted to put a question?
§ Sir P. CUNLIFFE-LISTERNobody could stop the hon. Gentleman asking at any question.
§ Mr. KIRKWOODYou would if you could.
§ Sir P. CUNLIFFE-LISTERNo. I have said, what I think the House will accept, that I think the position would be quite impossible if I were to be asked questions about private conversations which I have either in this House or elsewhere. As regards the gentleman referred to as the leader of a party in Kenya, he happens to be a, gentleman who is in this country at the present time, and with whom I have had some private conversations, and he has made no communication whatever.
§ Mr. WILLIAMSIs the right hon. Gentleman not aware that a statement was made by that gentleman which involved a statement that the negotiations were likely to bring about complete self-government for Europeans in Kenya—
§ Mr. WILLIAMS— and does not the right hon. Gentleman think that, the matter having been made public by one of the interested persons, it is worth while to put a question as to these conversations, although I fully appreciate the right hon. Gentleman's point with regard to private conversations
§ Sir P. CUNLIFFE-LISTERI really think the hon. Gentleman is entirely mistaken. I saw Lord Francis Scott, who happens to be the leader of a particular section in the legislature in Kenya, as I see everybody else. I do not think that Lord Francis Scott has made any sort of communication to anybody on the subject of the conversations which I have had with him.
§ Mr. WILLIAMSSince the Minister has made that statement may I through you, Mr. Speaker, be permitted to hand to the right hon. Gentleman the statement that was made by the leader of the Kenya party, so that he can see where the statement originated?
§ Sir P. CUNLIFFE-LISTERIf that is to be done, I wish to know whether this is an allegation made against Lord Francis Scott—
§ Mr. WILLIAMSNo.
§ Sir P. CUNLIFFE-LISTERYes it is. Lord Francis Scott is the leader of this party. I say that Lord Francis Scott, so 931 far as I know, has made no statement of any sort or kind. [Interruption.] Well, then, if there is no allegation against Lord Francis Scott—
§ Mr. WILLIAMSNone has been made and none was intended.