§ 4.15 p.m.
§ Mr. REMERAt this late hour there is only one matter which it is desirable that I should raise, namely, the subject of Japanese competition. It is appalling that, while we have at this time so many difficulties before us, there is so little opportunity given to us to raise these important issues, and only 45 minutes are left to-day in which to debate what is, I believe, to be the most important subject with which we have to deal in this House. It is now too late adequately to deal with it, and I want to enter my protest that the opportunities given by the Government to deal with it are not adequate. I hope that the President of the Board of Trade will give an opportunity, when a vote of this House can be taken, in order to deal with the subject in an adequate way. Those of us who feel profoundly disappointed with the Government in not having dealt with this subject in the way in which we feel they ought to have dealt with it, should have an opportunity when the House meets, not merely for a Debate, but for expressing our opinion in the Division Lobby. My hon. Friend the Secretary for the Overseas Trade Department met a deputation from the Silk Association only a few days ago, and he told them that the Government would come to a decision. When a few days ago I asked the President of the Board of Trade what they are going to do, I found that still nothing had been done.
I ask when something is going to be done. For over 12 months now we have been having Debates on this question of 1578 Japanese competition. The Parliamentary Secretary last night, my hon. Friend the Minister for the Overseas Trade Department, and the President of the Board of Trade have all of them time after time recognised what the great difficulty is, but still nothing is done. It is recognised that we are competing against a wage which is no more than one-tenth of the wages in this country, and against low hours. In spite of the fact that Japan has told the League of Nations that they have abolished night work for women and children, they are still working from five o'clock in the morning until eleven o'clock at night in two shifts. I ask the Minister what the Government are doing about this matter. Are they doing anything? It is obvious to anybody who has studied events that for some reason or other they are either not treating this House with the respect which it ought to receive or that they have some ulterior reason.
The Chancellor of the Exchequer gave a solemn pledge to the silk industry that it would receive the protection to which it was entitled during the last Budget speech and during the previous Finance Bill. During last Austumn that was cancelled out because he said it might interfere with the Japanese negotiations. Sir William Clare Lees said that the silk duties had no effect whatever upon his negotiations with the Japanese delegation. In view of the fact that the silk duties deal only with the European situation, why cannot some action be taken? I press upon my hon. Friend to give some reassuring answer, so that we can reassure our friends in the textile industries as to the attitude of the Government.
§ 4.22 p.m.
§ Major PROCTERI rise to call the attention of the Government to the desire of the Indian Government and of our own delegates that there should be a greater use of Indian cotton in this country. The moral argument behind the efforts of the Japanese in the Indian market lay in the fact that Japan was a large purchaser of the raw cotton of India, and when it was proposed to limit the entry of Japanese goods into India the Japanese threatened to boycott Indian cotton. I want to ask the Government whether we could not take away the bargaining counter which is being successfully used by the Japanese negotiators by taking off the Indian 1579 market some of the cotton which is at this moment being boycotted. I understand that India produces in the neighbourhood of 6,000,000 bales of cotton, and of that quantity Japan took roughly one-quarter, whereas this country takes only in the neighbourhood of 200,000 bales. It would be more in the spirit of Ottawa that ships should come from India to England carrying raw cotton and return to India with our manufactured goods than that raw cotton from India should go out to Japan in Japanese ships and that Japan's products should go into India. I ask the Government seriously to encourage the use of Indian cotton by our manufacturers.
One of the things that is urgently required is a spot market in this country for Indian cotton. It will be said that there is already a spot market, and that you can buy Indian cotton. It is quite true, because I understand that in Liverpool at this moment there are 40,000 bales of Indian cotton, but nearly all of that is on order. We want the Government by propaganda and encouragement to induce manufacturers in Lancashire to use Indian cotton. There was prejudice in the past, because it is of short staple and because it was inferior and it was not clean; but I understand that the Japanese have taught the Indians how to clean the cotton, and that it is very much better than it was in the past. To-day there is still a crass, reasonless inertia in regard to the use of Indian cotton. If a buyer knows that Indian cotton is used in a piece of cloth, he quotes 6d. per piece less than if it were made from any other cotton. There is a prejudice in the cotton exchanges against it. Why? Because the seller of Indian cotton has to bear a certain commercial risk. He has to hold it in stock, owing to the lack of education and the prejudice that exists.
It is a very sticky market, but it has been worked out that if the Government could set themselves to increase the consumption of Indian cotton by at least 50,000 bales per year, by means of bounties and other financial assistance, that would take the Indian surplus of cotton which is boycotted by the Japanese, and would cut out Japan's moral claim to half the British market, to the creation of which they have contributed nothing. I understand that 1580 Indian cotton can be used so that you can get as good a quality of material as with American middlings. There could also be a change-over of machinery, either to the high drafting system or to any other, by many of our derelict mills, and that would give employment to machine makers, thereby encouraging the machine trade which is needing help at this moment. It would also enable us to put into operation the great principle, the truth of which is becoming better known, that in the future we must not look for any great increase in non-Empire markets, but that, by reciprocal Free Trade within the Empire, and between India and this country and the rest of our Empire markets, we can get back a great deal of the prosperity that once was ours.
§ 4.30 p.m.
§ Lieut.-Colonel J. COLVILLE (Secretary, Overseas Trade Department)I will deal first with the observations of the hon. and gallant Member for Accrington (Major Procter) with regard to the increased use of Indian cotton in this country by simply emphasising what I think has already been stated in the House, namely, that efforts are being made in that direction, and that the increased use of Indian cotton in this country is being sympathetically considered by the interests concerned. There are, of course, technical considerations which it would be out of place for me to enter into now, but the spirit and desire to increase if possible the use of Indian cotton in this country is undoubtedly present, and I recognise the importance which my hon. and gallant Friend attaches to it.
With regard to the points raised by my hon. Friend the Member for Macclesfield (Mr. Remer), I think the House would not wish me to go in detail into the reasons why the Government have decided to approach the problem of Japanese competition by the method which they have chosen, namely, by industrial negotiation. Those reasons have been given in the House both by myself and by the President of the Board of Trade. But I would emphasise the fact that the problem is so large and so wide that any unwise approach to it might be fraught with disaster to the industries concerned, including the industry of which my hon. Friend speaks.
1581 We believe that the method by which we are attacking the problem is one that is likely to bring success. It is, in the first place, to allow the discussions between the accredited representatives of these two great industries which are to commence the discussions, namely, the cotton textile industry and the artificial silk industry, to commence, to render what support and assistance we can, and to see whether by that means agreement can be secured which may we hope extend to other industries also. The efforts that we have been making to facilitate the discussions have been rewarded to the extent that yesterday a further meeting took place. My hon. Friend will have seen in the Press a report of what took place. The third conference in this country between the Lancashire and Japanese cotton trade delegations took place in London yesterday at the headquarters of the Association of British Chambers of Commerce. So far, the British discussions have been informal, and confined mainly to defining the subject matter for discussion at the more formal conferences that are expected to take place later. Yesterday's meeting was expected to be the last of the informal meetings, both sides being in possession of information which led them to anticipate an early decision in India which would enable the two sides to proceed with the more formal negotiations. The meeting was a very long one, and the matter was gone into in considerable detail, with adjournments for private discussions among the delegates, and finally a statement was issued. That statement has been published in the Press, and, therefore, I do not wish to refer to it in detail, but it shows that there is now a real prospect of businesslike negotiations taking place in regard to these two great industries. The industrial delegation from Great Britain made it perfectly clear that it is considered to be very important that the artificial silk industry should be included in these negotiations.
§ Lieut.-Colonel COLVILLENo. I said that the artificial silk industry would be included because it is intended in the first place that the artificial silk industry, together with the cotton textile industry, 1582 should open the negotiations. The position now is that the next meeting will be called as soon as the Japanese delegation receive instructions for which they (have asked to open negotiations on the broader basis that the Lancashire delegation suggests by combining these two industries. The Japanese difficulty has been that it was necessary to see the agreement with India secured. We now wish and intend to proceed on the more formal talk.
Tie hon. Member asked why has nothing been done? In the view of the Government it is immensely important that progress should be made in these negotiations to reach agreement over this very difficult and complicated problem in these two main industries which are the spear-head of the competition. That is not to say that we shall neglect in any way the interest of those other industries which are also affected. The industry which the hon. Member complained of is not alone in being affected by Japanese competition. I have on other occasions demonstrated that there are a number of other industries which are adversely affected, not only in the home market but in many markets of the world, by Japanese competition, though competition in the cotton and artificial silk industries together represent by far the greatest share. Therefore, we decided to make our first efforts in that direction. It will be our earnest endeavour to see that they are successful and to follow them up, as far as we can, by efforts to assist the other industries that are suffering. The problem of Japanese competition, not only in our home market, but in Empire and foreign markets, is one to which the Government have been giving their earnest attention. The hon. Member complains about lack of action. Inadequate or hasty or ineffective action would be far worse than no action at all. It is, therefore, our intention to watch and facilitate these discussions, which have every evidence of proceeding on sound and businesslike lines, in every way we can and in the light of their outcome to see how we can benefit the other industries which were not in the first place included in the industrial discussions.
§ Mr. REMERIs the hon. and gallant Gentleman aware that the Silk Association attended over 20 meetings of the Import Duties Advisory Committee and specifically stated that they were not dealing with the question of Japanese 1583 but of European competition, and that Japanese competition had to be dealt with in some other way? Why is it that the protection against European competition which was promised on the Floor of the House has been denied?
§ Lieut.-Colonel COLVILLEIn the view of the Government it is not possible to disentangle the questions of European and Japanese competition, nor do the facts demonstrate that the real difficulty affecting the industry can be set apart from the Japanese competition, which is the most important part of the difficulty from which the industry suffers. We believe that the method that we are following up of obtaining agreement is the most likely to help the industry.
Mr. WILLIAM ALLENWhile considering this matter of Japanese competition, will the hon. and gallant Gentleman consider the position of the pottery industry, which is being very severely hit at present? Unless something is done quickly, I am afraid a very large number of people will be put out of work.
§ Lieut.-Colonel COLVILLEAn assurance was given only a few nights ago by the Parliamentary Secretary to the Board of Trade. The position of the pottery industry no less than the real silk industry is engaging our attention.
1584 My hon. Friend the Parliamentary Secretary to the Board of Trade reminds me that the orders at present in prospect for ships will assist the pottery industry to a considerable extent, because pottery fittings are required on ships. On the question of Japanese competition, there are many aspects affecting the pottery industry, and features of competition in foreign markets which are very distressing, features in regard to copying and design, and on all these aspects the Government are alive to the problem and will do their best to support the industry.
§ 4.41 p.m.
§ Mr. DENVILLEWe are about to adjourn the House, Mr. Deputy-Speaker, and I hope to be permitted to express greetings to you, and to Mr. Speaker, and to all the officers of the House, and I trust that you will have a very Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year. I believe that I am expressing, not only my own feelings, but the feelings of every Member of the House, including the Opposition.
§ Question put, and agreed to.
§ Adjourned accordingly at Nineteen Minutes before Five o'Clock until Monday, 29th January, 1934, pursuant to the Resolution of the House this day.