HC Deb 14 December 1933 vol 284 cc547-53

May I ask the Prime Minister the business for next week; and also to state how far it is proposed to go to-day in the event of the Motion for the suspension of the Eleven o'Clock Rule being carried?


If I may, I will answer the second question first. The Eleven o'Clock Rule is being suspended in order to obtain the Committee stage of the Newfoundland Bill and the Committee stage of the amended Unemployment Money Resolution. I venture to remind the House that a similar Money Resolution was very fully discussed on Monday and, for that reason, I hope that the amended Resolution will not require any long Debate to-day. It is also proposed to consider Motions approving the Potatoes and Hops Marketing Schemes, which are exempted business.

As regards the business for next week, it is proposed to take the following:

Monday: Newfoundland Bill, concluding stages. Dyestuffs (Import Regulation) Bill, Second Reading; Unemployment Money Resolution, Report stage.

Tuesday: Motion to set up a time-table for the consideration of the remaining stages of the Unemployment Bill. Afterwards, if there is time, the Unemployment Bill will be considered in Committee.

Wednesday: Private Members' Motions.

It is proposed to take the Motion for the Christmas Adjournment on Thursday, 21st December, and the Adjournment will be until Monday, 29th January, 1934.

On any day, if there is time, other Orders may be taken.


May I call the attention of the right hon. Gentleman to the large number of Amendments which are down for the Newfoundland Bill and also to the likelihood of considerable debate on the Unemployment Money Resolution and ask him whether it will not involve a very late sitting to-night if, in addition to those Orders, we are to take the Motions on the two Marketing Schemes. Would it not be possible to take those Motions on Tuesday of next week instead of trying to start the Committee stage of the Unemployment Bill on that day? If we start the Committee Stage on that day, there will be a considerable break during the Christmas holiday before it can be resumed, and it will not be possible to make any considerable progress with the Bill on Tuesday.


We must get the first two Orders which I have announced for to-day. The others will be subject to the course of business. We have no intention of asking the House to sit unreasonably late, but, as I have said, we must get the first two Orders. The business for Tuesday next could be arranged. If the Unemployment Bill goes into Committee before the Adjournment on Tuesday, then the discussion in Committee on that day would not, I understand, come under the time-table but would be in the nature of an extra opportunity for hon. Members.


Can the Prime Minister tell the House why it is proposed to set up a time-table on the Unemployment Bill? There has been no delay in this matter except the delay caused by the Chancellor of the Exchequer having estimated wrongly the desires of the local authorities. Presumably, the time-table is not being imposed because there is any danger that the Chancellor of the Exchequer will obstruct the Measure. Can the right hon. Gentleman tell us, therefore, why the Government propose to impose a time-table when there has been no undue delay, and why they make this proposal before we have entered on the Committee stage of the Bill?


As far as the Government are concerned it is not their intention to impose this time-table as a punishment. They propose to do so in the interests of business. It would be perfectly absurd if we were to give two or three days for a sort of trial run in Committee, and the hon. Member knows quite as well as we know that some resort will have to be made to an arrangement by which the Bill as a whole can be properly discussed. As I have already explained, the Government think it better to begin in a businesslike way with the discussion of this Bill in Committee and that is why they propose to set up this time-table preparatory to the Committee stage.


If it is necessary to have a time-table imposed on the House, will not some effort be made to make arrangements so that it will be an agreed time-table?


As a matter of fact, hon. Members know quite well that these time-tables are only made up after consultation. It has been considered time and time again, and by myself more than once, whether it would not be possible to get some sort of independent authority to set up these timetables, but the Government have always been perfectly accommodating and quite fair in their allocation of time, and we are proposing to do this one again in the old way.


Did not the right hon. Gentleman's experience of time-tables on the Finance Bill, when he was Prime Minister before, indicate that they acted very unfairly to both the Opposition and the supporters of the Government? We had many occasions when we were in Opposition trying to get replies from Ministers who merely stayed outside and refused to give answers. On the other hand, a great number of supporters of the Government, as hon. Members below the Gangway will remember, frequently wanted to make their contributions to the Debate and were unable to do so. Would it not be much more satisfactory to start this Bill in the ordinary way and see how we get along, instead of imposing a time-table from the outset?


My hon. and gallant Friend is a master of all methods of procedure, and he will remember that perhaps the most unsatisfactory way of doing business is one form or another of closure by compartments, and that in a long Bill like this that remedy would have ultimately to be resorted to. There is no method, perhaps, which is perfectly satisfactory, but on the whole every Government which has tried to run a big Bill through the House has come to the conclusion that in present circumstances the fairest method is a time-table of

which full notice has been given and about which negotiation has taken place.


In view of the fact that possibly no Bill entails so much human consideration in every line of it as this Bill, would the right hon. Gentleman not reconsider the matter, even if it meant bringing the House back a little earlier? Does he not see that on a timetable the Government may allocate the time, but the House of Commons has to discuss it, and frequently the Government give a reason which they and the House do not consider in the same light? In view of the fact also that he has had no evidence of undue delay, could he not reconsider the matter in the light of these circumstances?


I think the point which my hon. Friend raises is as to how the compartments should be arranged, and I should be very glad if he would address me on that subject on Tuesday, when I shall move the timetable.


Is not the real reason for this time-table the fact that the Government want as little discussion as possible?


I am rather surprised that the hon. Member makes that suggestion, as he himself was party to a similar decision on the part of the Government of which he was a member.


Cannot the right hon. Gentleman rely upon his huge majority and give a little fair play to a small Opposition?

Motion made, and Question put: That the Proceedings on Government Business be exempted, at this day's Sitting, from the provisions of the Standing Order (Sittings of the House)."—[The Prime Minister. "]

The House divided: Ayes, 262; Noes, 47.

Division No. 24.] AYES. [3.55 p.m.
Adams, Samuel Vyvyan T. (Leeds, W.) Beaumont, Hon. R.E.B. (Portsm'th, C.) Broadbent, Colonel John
Agnew, Lieut.-Com. P. G. Benn, Sir Arthur Shirley Brocklebank, C E. R.
Albery, Irving James Bennett, Capt. Sir Ernest Nathaniel Brown, Ernest (Leith)
Allen, Lt.-Col. J. Sandeman (B'k'nh'd) Bernays, Robert Brown, Brig.-G en. H.C. (Berks., Newb'y)
Allen. Lt.-Col. Sir William (Armagh) Betterton. Rt. Hon. Sir Henry B. Browne, Captain A. C.
Anstruther-Gray, W. J. Birchall, Major Sir John Dearman Buchan-Hepburn, P. G. T.
Aske, Sir Robert William Blindell. James Burghley, Lord
Astor. Maj. Hn. John J. (Kent, Dover) Borodale, Viscount Burgin, Dr. Edward Leslie
Astor, Viscountess (Plymouth, Sutton) Boulton. W. W. Burnett, John George
Baillie. Sir Adrian W. M. Bower, Lieut.-Com. Robert Tatton Butler, Richard Austen
Baldwin. Rt Hon. Stanley Bowyer, Capt. Sir George E. W. Cadogan, Hon. Edward
Barton. Capt. Basil Kelsey Boyce, H. Leslie Calne. G. R. Hall-
Beauchamp, Sir Brograve Campbell Briscoe, Capt. Richard George Campbell, Sir Edward Taswell (Brmly)
Caporn, Arthur Cecil Heneage, Lieut.-Colonel Arthur P. Ramsay, Alexander (W. Bromwich)
Carver, Major William H. Hills, Major Rt. Hon. John Waller Ramsay, T. B. W. (Western Isles)
Cayzer, Maj. Sir H. R. (Prtsmth., S.) Holdsworth. Herbert Ramsbotham, Herwald
Cazalet, Thelma (Islington, E.) Hope, Capt. Hon. A. O. J. (Aston) Ray, Sir William
Chamberlain, Rt. Hn. Sir J. A. (Birm., W) Hornby, Frank Reid, Capt. A, Cunningham-
Chamberlain. Rt. Hon. N. (Edgbaston) Howard, Tom Forrest Reid, David D. (County Down)
Chapman, Col. R. (Houghton-le-Spring) Howitt, Dr. Alfred B. Reid, James S. C. (Stirling)
Chapman, Sir Samuel (Edinburgh, S.) Hudson, Cant. A. U. M. (Hackney, N.) Rhys, Hon. Charles Arthur U.
Cheriton, Alan Ernest Leofric Hudson, Robert Spear (Southport) Rickards, George William
Christle, James Archibald Hunter, Dr. Joseph (Dumfries) Robinson. John Roland
Clarry, Reginald George Hurd, Sir Percy Rosbotham, Sir Thomas
Cobb, Sir Cyril Hurst, Sir Gerald B. Ross, Ronald D.
Collins, Rt. Hon. Sir Godfrey Iveagh, Countess of Rose Taylor, Walter (Woodbridge)
Colman, N. C. D. Jackson, Sir Henry (Wandsworth, C.) Runge, Norah Cecil
Colville, Lieut.-Colonel J. Jackson, J. C. (Heywood & Radcliffe) Russell, Alexander West (Tynemouth)
Conant, R. J. E. James, Wing-Com. A. W. H. Salmon, Sir Isidore
Cook, Thomas A. Jamieson, Douglas Samuel, Sir Arthur Michael (F'nham)
Cooke, Douglas Joel, Dudley J. Barnato Sandeman, Sir A. N. Stewart
Cooper, A. Duff Jones, Lewis (Swansea, West) Sanderson. Sir Frank Barnard
Cranberne, Viscount Ker, J. Campbell Sassoon, Rt. Hon. Sir Philip A. G. D.
Crooke, J. Smedley Kerr, Hamilton W. Scone, Lord
Crookshank, Col. C. de Windt (Bootle) Knight. Holford Shakespeare, Geoffrey H.
Crookshank, Capt. H. C. (Gainsb'ro) Knox, Sir Alfred Shaw, Helen B. (Lanark, Bothwell)
Cross, R. H. Lamb, Sir Joseph Quinton Shepperson, Sir Ernest W.
Crossley, A. C. Law, Richard K. (Hull, S. W.) Skelton, Archibald Noel
Cruddas, Lieut-Colonel Bernard Leech, Dr. J. w. Smith, Bracewell (Dulwich)
Culverwell, Cyril Tom Leighton, Major B. E. P. Smith, Sir J. Walker- (Barrow-In-F.)
Davies, Mal. Geo, F. (Somerset, Yeovil) Levy, Thomas Smithers, Waldron
Davison, Sir William Henry Lindsay, Kenneth Martin (Kilm'rnock) Somervell, Sir Donald
Denman, Hon. R. D. Lindsay, Noel Ker Somerville. Annesley A. (Windsor)
Despencer-Robertson, Major J. A. F. Lister, Rt. Hon. Sir Philip Cunliffe- Southby, Commander Archibald R. J.
Doran, Edward Llewellin, Major John J. Spencer, Captain Richard A.
Drewe, Cedric Lloyd, Geoffrey Spender-Clay, Rt. Hon. Herbert H.
Dugdale, Captain Thomas Lionel Locker-Lampson, Rt. Hn. G. (Wd. G'n) Stanley, Lord (Lancaster, Fylde)
Duggan, Hubert John Locker-Lampson, Com. O. (H'ndsw'th) Storey, Samuel
Duncan, James A. L. (Kensington, N.) Lovat-Fraser, James Alexander Stourton, Hon. John J.
Dunglass, Lord Lumley, Captain Lawrence R. Strauss, Edward A.
Eastwood, John Francis MacAndrew, Lieut.-Col. C. G. (Partick) Stuart, Lord C. Crichton-
Eden, Robert Anthony MacAndrew, Capt. J. O. (Ayr) Sueter, Rear-Admiral Murray F.
Edge, Sir William Mac Donald, Rt. Hon. J. R. (Seaham) Sugden, Sir Wilfrid Hart
Edmondson, Major A. J. MacDonald, Malcolm (Bassetlaw) Summersby, Charles H.
Elliston, Captain George Sampton McEwen, Captain J. H. F. Sutcliffe, Harold
Elmley, Viscount McKeag, William Tate, Mavis Constance
Emmott, Charles E. G. C. McKie, John Hamilton Taylor, Vice-Admiral E. A. (P'dd'gt'n, S.)
Emrys-Evans, P. V. Maclay, Hon. Joseph Paton Thomas. Rt. Hon. J. H. (Derby)
Entwistle, Cyril Fullard McLean, Major Sir Alan Thomas, James P. L. (Hereford)
Falle, Sir Bertram G. McLean, Dr. W. H. (Tradeston) Thompson, Luke
Fielden, Edward Brocklehurst Macpherson, Rt. Hon. Sir Ian Titchfield, Major the Marquess of
Fleming, Edward Lascelles Magnay, Thomas Todd, Capt. A. J. K. (B'wick-on-T.)
Fraser, Captain Ian Makins, Brigadier-General Ernest Todd, A. L. S. (Kingswinford)
Fremantle, Sir Francis Margesson, Capt. Rt. Hon. H. D. R. Touche, Gordon Cosmo
Fuller, Captain A. G. Marsden, Commander Arthur Train, John
Galbraith, James Francis Wallace Mayhew, Lieut.-Colonel John Tree, Ronald
Ganzoni, Sir John Meller, Sir Richard James Wallace, Captain D. E. (Hornsey)
Gauit, Lieut.-Col. A. Hamilton Mills, Sir Frederick (Leyton, E.) Ward, Lt.-Col. Sir A. L. (Hull)
Gibson, Charles Granville Mills, Major J. D. (New Forest) Ward. Irene Mary 8ewlck (Wallsend)
Gilmour, Lt.-Col. Rt. Hon. Sir John Mitchell, Harold P. (Br'tf'd a Chisw'k) Wardlaw-Milne, Sir John S.
Glossop, C. W. H. Mitchell, Sir W. Lane (Streatham) Warrender, Sir Victor A. G.
Glyn, Major Ralph G. C. Mitcheson, G. G. Waterhouse, Captain Charles
Goodman, Colonel Albert W. Molson, A. Hugh Elsdale Watt. Captain George Steven H.
Graham, Sir F. Fergus (C'mb'rld, N.) Monsell, Rt. Hon. Sir B. Eyres Wedderburn, Henry James Scrymgeour-
Grattan-Doyle, Sir Nicholas Moore, Lt.-Col. Thomas C. R. (Ayr) Weymouth, Viscount
Graves, Marjorie Morris, John Patrick (Salford, N.) Whyte, Jardine Bell
Grimston, R. V. Munro, Patrick Williams, Charles (Devon, Torquay)
Guinness, Thomas L. E. B. Nation, Brigadier-General J. J. H. Williams, Herbert G. (Croydon, S.)
Guy, J. C. Morrison Nicholson, Godfrey (Morpeth) Wills. Wilfrid D.
Hacking. Rt. Hon. Douglas H. Nicholson, Rt. Hn. W. G. (Petersf'ld) Wilson, Lt.-Col. Sir Arnold (Hertf'd)
Hamilton, Sir George (Ilford) Ormsby-Gore. Rt. Hon. William G. A. Wilson, Clyde T. (West Toxteth)
Hanley, Dennis A. Petherick, M. Windsor-Clive, Lieut.-Colonel George
Hannon, Patrick Joseph Henry Peto, Sir Basil E. (Devon, Barnstaple) Winterton, Rt. Hon. Earl
Harbord, Arthur Pickford, Hon. Mary Ada Young, Rt. Hon. Sir Hilton (S'v'noaks)
Hartington, Marquess of Pike, Cecil F.
Hartland, George A. Powell. Lieut.-Col. Evelyn G. H. TELLERS FOR THE AYES.—
Harvey, George (Lambeth, Kenningt'n) Pownall, Sir Assheton Sir Frederick Thomson and Sir George Penny.
Headlam, Lieut.-Col. Cuthbert M. Pybus, Percy John
Henderson, Sir Vivian L. (Chelmsford) Raikes, Henry V. A. M.
Adams, D. M. (Poplar, South) Buchanan, George Davies, David L. (Pontypridd)
Attlee, Clement Richard Cape, Thomas Davies, Rhys John (Westhoughton)
Banfield, John William Cove, William G. Edwards, Charles
Batey, Joseph Cripps, Sir Stafford George, Major G. Lloyd (Pembroke)
Bevan, Aneurin (Ebbw Vale) Curry, A. C. Grithffis, T. (Monmouth, Pontypool)
Brown, C. W. E. (Notts., Mansfield) Daggar, George Grundy, Thomas W.
Hall, George H. (Merthyr Tydvil) Mainwaring, William Henry Wedgwood, Rt. Hon. Josiah
Hamilton, Sir R. W. (Orkney & Zetl'nd) Mender, Geoffrey le M. White, Henry Graham
Harris, Sir Percy Mason, David M. (Edinburgh, E.) Williams, Edward John (Ogmore)
Jenkins, Sir William Maxton, James Williams, Dr. John H. (Llanelly)
John, William Owen, Major Goronwy Williams, Thomas (York., Don Valley)
Johnstone, Harcourt (S. Shields) Parkinson, John Allen Wood, Sir Murdoch McKenzie (Band)
Jones, Morgan (Caerphilly) Res, Walter Russell Young, Ernest J. (Middlesbrough, E.)
Lawson, John James Samuel, Rt. Hon. sir H. (Darwen)
Logan, David Gilbert Thorne, William James TELLERS FOR THE AYES.—
McEntee, Valentine L. Tinker, John Joseph Mr. G. Macdonald and Mr. Groves.
Maclean, Nell (Glasgow, Govan) Wallhead, Richard C.