§ 2. Major-General Sir ALFRED KNOXasked the Secretary of State for Dominion Affairs if he will take immediate steps to bring to the notice of the natives of the Irish Free State, both in this country and the Free State, the disadvantages which they will suffer both in status and in the way of entering this country from the declaration of the Irish Free State as a republic?
The SECRETARY of STATE for DOMINION AFFAIRS (Mr. J. H. Thomas)No, Sir. I do not feel that any steps such as those indicated are necessary. The contingency has not arisen and I hope never will arise. Further the advantages enjoyed by British subjects as compared with aliens in this country are sufficiently well known and appreciated to need no emphasis from me.
§ Sir A. KNOXArising out of the reply, is it not a fact that in the event of the declaration of a Republic by the Irish Free State, no longer will immigrants from Ireland be allowed to come here to compete in the labour market of this country and take advantage of our schemes of social insurance; and is it not also a fact that domiciled natives of the Irish Free State in this country would be liable to be returned to Southern Ireland if they did not accept British nationality?
Mr. THOMASThere can be no doubt whatever as to the disadvantages of aliens in this country compared with British citizens.
§ Sir WILLIAM DAVISONWill my right hon. Friend assure the House that the status as British citizens, which was guaranteed by the treaty to the loyalists in Southern Ireland, will be guaranteed by this House, whatever happens?
Mr. THOMASI have already said that I still refuse to believe such a contingency will ultimately arise. If it does, the Government will deal with it.
§ Mr. HANNONIs the House to understand from my right hon. Friend's reply that the door is still open for further negotiations if the Irish Free State desire it?
§ Mr. LANSBURYMay I ask the Secretary of State for Dominion Affairs whether he has any further statement to make in relation to the Irish Free State?
Mr. THOMASYes, Sir. On the 30th November I received from Mr. de Valera a dispatch arising out of my statement in the House on 14th November. The dispatch was as follows:
§ "Sir,
§ I have the honour to refer to the statement made by you in the House of Commons on the 14th instant in reply to a question relating to the dispute between the British Government and the Government of the Irish Free State.
§ 2. On that occasion, having stated that the British Government were advised that the Bills to amend the Constitution of the Irish Free State, then before the Oireachtas, conflicted in important respects with the Treaty of 1921, you declared that the Irish Free State as a member of the Commonwealth was completely free to order her 1458 own affairs. You also said that it was the desire of the British Government to see the Irish Free State taking her full share as a member of the Commonwealth, not grudgingly but of her own free will, accepting the responsibilities and enjoying the privileges. You added that if the Irish Free State renounced the responsibilities she could not hope to enjoy the privileges of membership.
§ 3. Following this statement the Government of the Irish Free State feel obliged to make clear beyond any possibility of doubt the attitude of the Irish people towards the British Commonwealth. The Irish people have never sought membership of the Commonwealth. Their association with Great Britain and the Commonwealth has never on their side been a voluntary association. In every generation they have striven with such means as were at their disposal to maintain their right to exist as a distinct and independent nation, and whenever they yielded to British rule in any form they did so only under the pressure of overwhelming material force.
§ 4. The Treaty of 1921 involved no fundamental change in their attitude. They submitted to the Treaty because they were presented with the alternative of immediate war. Thy did not accept it as a final settlement of their relations with Great Britain. Still less did they regard the Treaty in the sense in which the British Government seek to interpret it—as giving Great Britain a permanent right to interfere in their constitutional development.
§ 5. The experience of the last 12 years has made it abundantly evident that lasting friendship cannot be attained on the basis of the present relationship. The Government of the Irish Free State infer from your statement of the 14th instant that the British Government also now realise the evils of a forced association and have decided not to treat as a cause of war or other aggressive action a decision of the Irish people to sever their connection with the Commonwealth. This attitude of the British Government appears to the Government of the Irish Free State to be such fundamental importance that it should be formulated in a direct and unequivocal statement. The Government of the Irish Free State would sincerely welcome such a statement. They believe that it would be the first step towards that free and friendly co-operation in matters of agreed common concern between Great Britain and Ireland which ought to exist between them."
§ That was signed by Mr. de Valera. I have to-day sent the following reply:
§ "Sir,
§ I have the honour to state that your despatch of the 29th November has received our careful consideration.
2. His Majesty's Government in the United Kingdom cannot accept the description of the relations between the two countries set out in paragraphs 3 and 4 of your despatch. They have stated their view as to the 1921 Settlement in my despatch of the 9th April, 1932, in the following words: 1459'His Majesty's Government in the United Kingdom entered into the 1921 Settlement with the single desire that it should end the long period of bitterness between the two countries and it is their belief that the Settlement has brought a measure of peace and contentment which could not have been reached by any other means. Further, as the direct result of that Settlement, the Irish Free State has participated in and contributed to the notable constitutional developments of the last few years, whereby the position of the Dominions as equal members with the United Kingdom of the British Commonwealth of Nations under the Crown has been denned and made clear to the world.'
§ 3. His Majesty's Government in the United Kingdom would point out that the Treaty Settlement was duly accepted by the elected representatives of the people of the Irish Free State, and that its acceptance was subsequently confirmed at succeeding General Elections in the Irish Free State. The period which elapsed between 1921 and 1932 was marked by the progressive development of friendly relations and co-operation between the two countries.
§ 4. Since His Majesty's Government in the United Kingdom are thus unable to accept the assumption in paragraph 5 of your despatch, namely, that Tasting friendship cannot be attained on the basis of the present relationship, they do not see any grounds for answering a question which is founded on that assumption. They cannot believe that the Irish Free State Government contemplate the final repudiation of their Treaty obligations in the manner suggested, and consequently they do not feel called upon to say what attitude they would adopt in circumstances which they regard as purely hypothetical.
§ 5. In conclusion I would state that His Majesty's Government in the United Kingdom feel that the free intercourse on equal terms with the other members of the British Commonwealth which the Irish Free State have enjoyed under the Treaty Settlement, culminating in the Statute of Westminster, is the surest proof of their freedom to work out their own destiny within the Commonwealth. We believe that the natural associations between the two countries are such that a close and friendly relationship between them is essential to their full prosperity, and I would once again emphasise what I have previously stated on many occasions, namely, that His Majesty's Government in the United Kingdom are, and always have been, most sincerely anxious to work in friendly co-operation with the Irish Free State as a member of the British Commonwealth.
§ I have the honour to be, etc.,
§ (Sgd.) J.H.THOMAS."
§ Mr. LANSBURYEvery one will agree that these dispatches are very important, and that all of us should give very close consideration to them. I should like to ask the right hon. Gentleman whether 1460 there is any intention on the part of the Government to allow the House an opportunity of discussing this matter before anything final is decided as between the two Governments. That is one question. The next is whether it is intended, also before any final decision is made, to call the other members of the British Commonwealth of nations into consultation, seeing that this is a matter that will, if carried to the end—the projected end—affect conditions in the other nations as well as here.
Mr. THOMASIt is very difficult to answer what, I am sure, the right hon. Gentleman will realise is a very hypothetical question for the Government. He talks of "before any final action is taken"; I have read to the House, not only our answer to Mr. de Valera, but the express desire and intention, so far as we are concerned, not to close the door to an honourable settlement. With regard to bringing in the other Dominions, I would emphasise what I have frequently stated, and I must repeat it very simply. We have never endeavoured, and do not desire now, to drag in any Dominion. The dispute between Ireland and ourselves originated because they repudiated some Treaty obligations. We took our stand, by simply saying that we could not enter into further negotiations with people who repudiate their existing obligations. That was the origin of the disturbance, and the cause of the whole dispute. We have never closed the door, and I hope never will, to a friendly settlement.
§ Mr. LANSBURYThe right hon. Gentleman has not replied to either question. What I want to emphasise is that, in view of the very important statement by Mr. de Valera and the equally important statement of the right hon. Gentleman, no doubt there will be further communications, and I want a clear answer on these points: that, before the matter is carried to a decision, the House of Commons shall be informed, and shall have an apportunity of recording its opinion on the subject; further, I cannot imagine that the right hon. Gentleman wishes the country and the Dominions to understand that, in the view of His Majesty's Government, this dispute is one in which they have no concern. I cannot believe that that is the policy of the Government.
Mr. THOMASI hope that the right hon. Gentleman will not mix two things, and I had better make the position clear, because I am afraid that it may be misinterpreted outside. When I replied on the question of the Doiminions, it was obvious that no one could talk about any member leaving the British Commonwealth and not realise that the Dominions would be affected. What I desired to make clear was that the original dispute between Ireland and ourselves was a dispute between us, and did not affect any other country. On the second point, the House of Commons naturally and obviously—I have already said that I hope that the contingency will not arise, but if it does arise—would be the first to be informed of the whole situation.
§ Colonel WEDGWOODWhy cannot the right hon. Gentleman tell them, "Go, and God bless you," instead of continuing the dispute?
§ Mr. MAXTONIn view of the point raised by the Leader of the Opposition as to the whole matter being put before the House, and pending that, will the Dominions Secretary tell us, without revealing Cabinet secrets, what were the reasons that influenced the Government in deciding that it was better to evade Mr. de Valera's question than to answer it?