HC Deb 04 December 1933 vol 283 cc1449-51

11.48 p.m.

Mr. HORE-BELISHA: That the Import Duties (Substitution) (No. 1) Order, 1933, dated the sixteenth day of November, nineteen hundred and thirty-three, made by the Treasury under the Finance Act, 1933, a copy of which was presented to tins House on the sixteenth day of November, nineteen hundred and thirty-three, be approved. This Order is the first to be made under Section 16 of the Finance Act, 1933, which requires the Treasury by Order to provide for the substitution of a specific duty in place of the general ad valorem duty. There is no question under this Section of either raising or lowering the duty; the question is merely one of substituting a specific duty for an ad valorem duty. The Order proposes a duty on dead turkeys of 1d. per 1b., which is approximately equivalent to the present ad valorem duty of 10 per cent. The importers and the producers of turkeys desire this Order.


What about the consumers?

11.50 p.m.


I think there is something wrong with the Treasury figures, because, while 10 per cent. is 1d. per 1b., we find 30 per cent. is 4d. per 1b.


The increase is 10 per cent.


I notice that dead turkeys are being given prior consideration in view of the approach of the importing season, which I suppose means the festive season. I understand from inquiries made that the actual effect of this will be—because the right hon. Gentleman said "approximately 10 per cent."—to put up the price by id per pound. That is the information which I have received from the trade. I understand that this will actually affect only the turkeys that are bought by the poorer sections of the community, where they buy turkeys at all, because the imported turkey is a small bird and comes mainly from those parts of Europe and South America in which we are particularly interested because of the large sums of money which some of our nationals have invested there. I understand that the real reason was that there was to be a very great influx of turkeys at that time; that owing to the unusually high price and to a, good season we are going to have a large amount of turkeys in the market. One idea of the Government as far as this Act is concerned is to try to restrict the entry of food into this country. I should like to have some assurance that these turkeys will not be shut out, and that if the Government cannot do anything towards replacing the cuts they might, as an indication of their good feeling, give us a turkey all round. It is characteristic of the Government that if they see a danger of food coming into the country in abundance or cheap they take the greatest possible pains to discourage its import. Never do they by any chance take any action which would lead to a larger consumption.

11.53 p.m.


I only want to ask one or two questions of the Financial Secretary to the Treasury. I think he said that the producers of turkeys were going to get 4d. more for them.




What I want to know is whether the consumers of turkeys have to pay 4d. more a pound. A great many of us are looking forward to Chrsitmas, when we shall get rid of the National Government for a month; I understand that we are not going to meet again until 30th January, and we were thinking of taking a few turkeys to celebrate the fact that for a month at least we shall not have to cope with the problem presented by the National Government sitting opposite us. Have we to pay 4d. more a pound?

Major GEORGE DAVIES (Lord of the Treasury)

Only for cocks.


The hon. Gentleman knows about turkeys, or whether he differentiates between the sexes of those birds. I want to know whether the consumer of turkeys has to pay 4d. a pound more for turkeys as a result of this Order.

Question put.

The House divided: Ayes, 130; Noes, 42.

Division No. 8.] AYES. [11.55 p.m.
Acland-Troyte, Lieut.-Colonel Harvey. George (Lambeth, Kenningt'n) Pybus, Percy John
Agnew, Lieut.-Com. P. G. Hasiam, Sir John (Bolton) Raikes, Henry V. A. M.
Albery, Irving James Hore-Belisha, Leslie Ramsay, T. B. W. (Western Isles)
Allen, Lt.-Col. J. Sandeman (B'k'nh'd) Hornby, Frank Reid, David D. (County Down)
Aske, Sir Robert William Horobin, Ian M. Reid, William Allan (Derby)
Balley, Eric Alfred George Horsbrugh, Florence Rickards, George William
Baldwin, Rt. Hon. Stanley Hudson, Capt. A. U. M. (Hackney, N.) Ropner, Colonel L.
Bateman, A. L. Hunter, Dr. Joseph (Dumfries) Rosbotham, Sir Thomas
Beaumont, Hn. R. E. B. (Portsm'th, C.) Hunter, Capt. M. J. (Brigg) Russell, R. J. (Eddisbury)
Blindell, James James, Wing-Corn. A. W. H. Rutherford, Sir John Hugo (Liverpil)
Bowyer, Capt. Sir George E. W. Jones, Lewis (Swansea, West) Sandeman, Sir A. N. Stewart
Braithwaite, Maj. A. N. (Yorks, E. R.) Kerr, Lieut.-Col. Charles (Montrose) Sanderson, Sir Frank Barnard
Braithwaite, J. G. (Hillsborough) Leckie, J. A. Sassoon, Rt. Hon. Sir Philip A. G. D.
Browne, Captain A. C. Leech, Dr. J. W. Shaw, Helen B. (Lanark, Bothwell)
Burghley, Lord Liddall, Walter S. Southby, Commander Archibald R. J.
Burnett, John George Lloyd, Geoffrey Spencer, Captain Richard A.
Campbell, Sir Edward Taswell (Brmly) Lockwood, John C. (Hackney, C.) Spens, William Patrick
Caporn, Arthur Cecil Loder, Captain J. de Vere Stevenson, James
Castlereagh, Viscount MacDonald, Malcolm (Bassetlaw) Storey, Samuel
Chapman, Col. R. (Houghton-le-Spring) Macdonald, Sir Murdoch (Inverness) Stourton, Hon. John J.
Cochrane, Commander Hon. A. D. McEwen, Captain J. H. F. Strickland, Captain W. F.
Colville, Lieut.-Colonel J. McKeag, William Sugden, Sir Wilfrid Hart
Conant, R. J. E. McKie, John Hamilton Tate, Mavis Constance
Cook, Thomas A. Margesson, Capt Rt. Hon. H. D. R. Templeton, William P.
Crooke, J. Smedley Martin, Thomas B. Thomas, James P. L. (Hereford)
Crossley, A. C. Mayhew, Lieut.-Colonel John Thomson, Sir Frederick Charles
Cruddas, Lieut.-Colonel Bernard Mills, Major J. D. (New Forest) Titchfield, Major the Marquess of
Davies, Edward C. (Montgomery) Mitchell, Harold P. (Br'tf'd & Chisw'k) Todd, A. L. S. (Kingswintord)
Dawson, Sir Philip Mitcheson, G. G. Train, John
Dickie, John P. Moison, A. Hugh Elsdale Wallace, Captain D. E. (Hornsey)
Duncan, James A. L. (Kensington, N.) Monsell, Rt. Hon. Sir B. Eyres Ward, Irene Mary Bewick (Wallsend)
Eastwood, John Francis Morris, John Patrick (Salford, N.) Ward, Sarah Adelaide (Cannock)
Elliston, Captain George Sampson Morris-Jones, Dr. J. H. (Denbigh) Warrender, Sir Victor A. G.
Elmley, Viscount Nall-Cain, Hon. Ronald Wells, Sydney Richard
Erskine, Lord (Weston-super-Mare) Nation, Brigadier-General J. J. H. Whyte, Jardine Bell
Essenhigh, Reginald Clare Newton, Sir Douglas George C. Williams, Herbert G. (Croydon, s)
Flint, Abraham John Normand, Rt. Hon. Wilfrid Willoughby de Eresby, Lord
Fraser, Captain Ian North, Edward T. Wills, Wilfrid D.
Fremantle, Sir Francis O'Donovan, Dr. William James Wilson, Lt.-Col. Sir Arnold (Hertf'd)
Goff, Sir Park O'Neill, Rt. Hon. Sir Hugh Womersley, Walter James
Goodman, Colonel Albert W. Pearson, William G.
Graham, Sir F. Fergus (Cemb'rl'd, N.) Penny, Sir George TELLERS FOR THE AYES.—
Gretton, Colonel Rt. Hon. John Petherick, M. Lieut.-Colonel Sir Lambert Ward
Guinness, Thomas L. E. B. Peto, Geoffrey K. (W'verh'pt'n, Bilston) and Major George Davies.
Gunston, Captain D. W. Powell, Lieut.-Col. Evelyn G. H
Adams, D. M. (Poplar, South) Foot, Dingle (Dundee) Maxton, James
Attlee, Clement Richard Grenfell, David Rees (Glamorgan) Milner, Major James
Banfield, John William Grundy, Thomas W. Parkinson, John Allen
Batey, Joseph Hall, George H. (Merthyr Tydvil) Price, Gabriel
Bevan, Aneurin (Ebbw Vale) Harris, Sir Percy Rea, Walter Russell
Brown, C. W. E. (Notts., Mansfield) Holdsworth, Herbert Roberts, Aled (Wrexham)
Buchanan, George Johnstone, Harcourt (S. Shields) Smith, Torn (Normanton)
Cape, Thomas Lansbury, Rt. Hon. George Tinker, John Joseph
Cocks, Frederick Seymour Logan, David Gilbert White, Henry Graham
Cripps, Sir Stafford Lunn, William Williams, Edward John (Ogmore)
Curry, A. C. McEntee, Valentine L. Williams. Thomas (York, Don Valley)
Daggar, George McGovern, John Wilmot, John
Davies, David L. (Pontypridd) Maclean, Nell (Glasgow, Govan)
Dobbie, William Mainwaring, William Henry TELLERS FOR THE NOES.—
Edwards, Charles Mallalieu, Edward Lancelot Mr. John and Mr. Duncan Graham.

Resolved, That the Import Duties (Substitution) (No. 1) Order, 1933, dated the sixteenth day of November, nineteen hundred and thirty-three, made by the Treasury under the Finance Act, 1933, a copy of which was presented to this House on the sixteenth day of November, nineteen hundred and thirty-three, be approved.