§ Motion made, and Question proposed, That the Clause stand part of the Bill."
§ 6.0 p.m.
§ Sir S. CRIPPSBefore the Committee pass from this Clause, they would, I am sure, like to have an explanation on behalf of the Government as to what exactly the Clause means and what is the intention of the Government under the Clause. The Clause deals with the power of the Treasury to refer matters to the Import Duties Advisory Committee. One of the important scatters which the Treasury will have to decide will be the matter which is dealt with in Article 4 of the Canadian Agreement, that is to say, the question whether Empire producers of wheat in grain, copper, zinc, and lead, respectively, are unable or unwilling to offer these commodities on first sale in the United Kingdom at prices not exceeding the world prices and in quantities which are sufficient to supply the requirements of the United Kingdom. That is so obviously a matter which could not be decided by the Import Duties Advisory Committee, seeing the type of questions which it will raise, that we 1846 should like an assurance from the hon. Gentleman that matters of that sort will not ill any way be referred to the Import Duties Advisory Committee. I am not suggesting that they would; it may be that the purpose of the Clause is merely o deal with technical matters as regards precise definitions, descriptions, matters of convenience as regards drawback, and all kinds of matters of that type. We do not think that matters of this fundamental importance and difficulty should be referred is the Import Duties Advisory Committee, because it raises the question, among other things, of the willingness of the exporter or the grower or the manufacturer or whoever he may be in the Colonies to offer these commodities. That is clearly a question that cannot be decided in this country. It will, apparently, have to be decided in Canada, and there is no procedure by which an accusation of being unwilling to supply a commodity in reasonable quantities and at a reasonable price can be judged by the Import Duties Advisory Committee. There might be a price ring or restriction of production in Canada. The Committee cannot call the Canadians before them or inquire into the question whether the supply is restricted for one reason or another. Therefore, we should like to have a full assurance from the Government that such important matters as that 1847 will not be referred to them, but that some other tribunal will be set up which can discuss matters of that sort.
§ The PARLIAMENTARY SECRETARY to the BOARD of TRADE (Dr. Burgin)This Clause is perfectly general in character, and it gives the Treasury power to seek an advisory opinion from the Import Duties Advisory Committee upon any question that may arise in regard to the discharge of the functions of the Treasury under the Act. The Committee is possessed of technical knowledge and experience and is an extremely capable independent body, and it seems natural that the Treasury should take power in this legislation to refer specific matters to them for an advisory opinion. The hon. and learned Gentleman expressed a hope that in that general realm of subjects there should not be included those which seem most likely to arise, so I understood his argument. He asked whether, for Instance, the question whether the four commodities were being offered at world prices would be the sort of question that should be submitted. The answer must he in the affirmative. The question would not be whether the Empire producer is unwilling. The question would probably be: Are British consumers requirements being met by the offer of these commodities at world prices? Besides the word "unwilling," in regard to which there might be some difficulty, there is also in the Canadian Agreements the word "unable," and "unable" is tested entirely from the consumers' point of view, from the ability of the consumer to secure the supplies to which the Article relates.
§ Sir S. CRIPPSSurely the hon. Gentleman does not say that the proper interpretation of whether a person is unable to offer is whether the consumer can get it. It is an entirely different proposition. I am sure he will appreciate that.
§ Dr. BURGINWhat I am endeavouring to say is that Clause 11 is general in character and that I am unable to give the hon. and learned Gentleman any assurance that the type of question that he raises will not be submitted. It is precisely one of the types of question that would be referred to the Advisory Committee.