ISLE OF MAN (CUSTOMS) BILL. (Hansard, 18 March 1932)

§ The FINANCIAL SECRETARY to the TREASURY (Major Elliot)
I beg to move, "That the Bill be now read a Second time".
664 As the House knows, an Isle of Man (Customs) Bill is the usual sequel to the Budget passed in this House, and this Bill is introduced in advance of the normal Budget. That is due to the Emergency Budget which we passed last Autumn, and the Import Duties Act which we have passed since that time. As there will be another Isle of Man (Customs) Bill after the Finance Bill of this year, no doubt it will be possible for the House to further review the situation at that time. The position of the Isle of Man Customs is that they are regulated by the Isle of Man Legislature, which is one of the most interesting ancillaries of British Empire Government, possessing its own chambers with a whole paraphernalia of arrangement for legislation. That Legislature passes these duties by legislation through the Tynwald. After Tynwald has passed the duties they have to be confirmed by this House, and they conform very closely to those which have been passed since the Isle of Man (Customs) Bill, and they apply to the United Kingdom. The exact relation between the Legislature of the Isle of Man and this House would take a constitutional lawyer several hours to explain, and therefore I do not desire to go into that question now. Suffice it to say that the Customs of the Isle of Man are imposed by a resolution of Tynwald and then they come before this House for confirmation. I think that is as far as it is desirable for me to explain on the Second Reading of this Measure. All we wish to establish now is that these duties should be confirmed, having been duly set up in the Isle of Man by the constitutional authorities.

§ Mr. RHYS DAVIES
I am afraid I must press the hon. and gallant Genteman for a little more information, We cannot allow this Measure to pass its Second Reading in the way suggested by the hon. and gallant Member without more information. My first question is: Has the House of Keys been consulted with regard to this Measure, and has that consultation been by way of deputation from the House of Keys to or from the Treasury?

§ Major ELLIOT
I have already explained that point in my speech. I said, first, that these duties were put on by the constitutional authority in the Isle of Man, which is the House of Keys and the 665 other House sitting together, and is known as the Tynwald.

§ Mr. DAVIES
I believe I know what has happened in connection with this Bill. The Treasury has assumed that the Isle of Man is a sort of pocket borough to enact this legislation and, whether they are Free Traders or not, they have to accept this Bill. There are about 60,000 people in the Isle of Man, and I think they are entitled to say whether or not they are in favour of the tariff policy of the Government. Have the people of the Isle of Man had an opportunity of stating their views in regard to Tariff Reform or Free Trade at an election? I notice that the date of the operation of this Measure is the 1st day of March, 1932. That is the same date as the original Measure, and I want to know whether the duties will apply in the Isle of Man in exactly the same way as they apply in this country.
I do not know what kind of goods may be corning from the Dominions or from places like Argentina to the Isle of Man, and I do not know whether those goods are treated in some way in the Isle of Man and shipped to this country again. I have been in the Isle of Man, and its only industries apparently are agriculture and fisheries. As I have said before there are 60,000 people in the Isle of Man, but one might imagine that we are dealing with a place like Canada. Of course, the Government intend, I suppose, to keep the Isle of Man as a sort of subservient domain of their own, and to inform the Government of that island what it has to do. The Parliament of the Isle of Man has simply to carry out the behests of the Government. In these circumstances the opinion of the Isle of Man on an issue like Tariff Reform and Free Trade is very important. The Principality of Wales does not take the same view as England in regard to tariffs, and if the English constituencies had returned as many Labour Members proportionately as Wales did at the last election the Labour party would almost have had a majority on the benches opposite. It may be the same in the Isle of Man: the House of Keys may have a majority in favour of the Free Trade principle. It may be that tariffs will suit this country, but it does not follow that tariffs will suit the Isle of Man. I think 666 we are entitled, therefore, to more in formation on the subject.
On the question of uniformity between this country and the Isle of Man in relation to Customs Duties, would the right hon. and gallant Gentleman tell us what is the Income Tax in the Isle of Man? It varies considerably in its principle from our own Income Tax; I understand that it is universal upon all incomes. Since on this fundamental issue of taxation there is a difference as between the Isle of Man and this country, there seems to be no reason why there should be uniformity in regard to Custons Duties either. I see present to-day the hon. and gallant Gentleman who was with me in Iceland when the people from the Isle of Man claimed that they had the oldest Parliament in the world. I would he glad to hear his comments on the ancient House of Keys, the Parliament of the Isle of Man. I do not propose to go outside the scope of the Bill, but these Celtic people in the Isle of Man and in Wales and Brittany have a different outlook on such principles as this from Saxon-minded folk. I want to protest, as a Celt, that the Saxons are now using another Celt in order to impose their will upon the small community which lives in the Isle of Man.
The point raised by the Leader of our party is a good one. [Interruption.] It surely is quite allowable that we should confer as to the best way of putting our case. If hon. Gentlemen opposite have other points to put, they ought to put them this afternoon. We have a right to complain that the whole of the Debates this week have rested on us on these benches. The Lord President of the Council will know that this cannot be a debating Chamber any longer unless hon. Gentlemen on the other side contribute to the Debates. [Interruption.] I am glad to receive cheers from the Liberals; it is time that they did their duty. I understand that the Income Tax in the Isle of Man is only about 4d. in the £, and I am astonished that all those who complain about the heavy Income Tax in this country do not emigrate to the Isle of Man, especially as they can do so without passports.
3.0 p.m.
The first Schedule to this Bill covers, I imagine, practically all the articles 667 covered by the Act which we have already passed. Let me take the case of gold and silver bullion. Is there any idea of shipping gold bullion from France to the Isle of Man and back again to Liverpool? The right hon. and gallant Gentleman ought to give the reasons for putting into a Bill relating to the Isle of Man words covering the trans-shipment of bullion to the Isle of Man, and, after it has been altered in some way, bringing it back to Liverpool or Manchester. What I really want to know is whether this list is exactly the same list as the one in the Act which we have already passed relating to the whole of the United Kingdom.
I am reminded that there is also the question of the Beer Duty in the Isle of Man. I am glad that the Noble Lady the Member for the Sutton Division of Plymouth (Viscountess Astor) is not here, or I would not dare say what I am going to say. I think I am entitled to ask whether there are any breweries in the Isle of Man, or, if not, what is the source of the beer that comes into the Isle of Man? Are there many distilleries in the Isle of Man? I remember meeting in the Isle of Man the only intelligent political party, the Labour party, and I noticed that there was a growth of Labour sentiment in the Island, and with it a definite development in the intelligence of the people. I understand that there is also a Liberal movement in the Island. Indeed, I think that the Liberals are stronger in the Isle of Man proportionately than they are here, and my impression is that they are also more intelligent and very much more united, which, perhaps, is a more important factor than any other in connection with this Bill. I do not know that I dare claim more than to have contributed a few rather intelligent sentences to a rather dull debate, but I should be glad if I could have an answer to the questions that I have put.

§ Major ELLIOT
Perhaps, by permission of the House, I may reply to the questions which have been put to me by the hon. Member. Out of courtesy to him I do not desire that they should go unanswered. He asked whether the people of the Island had been consulted in regard to this Bill. They have been consulted through their representative 668 Chamber, and pressure has not been put. upon them by our authorities to pass this legislation. As regards the position of imports brought into the Isle of Man and subsequently re-exported to other parts of the United Kingdom, it is to preserve this country against possible smuggling from the Isle of Man that these extensive Schedules have been drawn up and have been passed by the Isle of Man Parliament. The hon. Member asked a question with regard to Income Tax, but this Bill deals with Customs Duties, and does not in any way bring in the question of Income Tax in the Isle of Man. If the hon. Member wishes me to go into that question, I am afraid he will need to put down a question on the subject for discussion at some future date. Then the hon. Member asserted that the people of the Isle of Man were a Celtic community. I can only imagine that he has not appreciated the significance of the three legs, which are a symbol of Norse communities. The Norse invasion went right clown to Sicily, and it constituted an interesting chapter in the history of that island.

§ Mr. RHYS DAVIES
If that is true, how comes it that the cats of the Isle of Man have no tails?

§ Major ELLIOT
I am not sure whether the Customs of the Isle of Man will extend to the customs of the cats or not, but I fear that will be ruled out of Order, and, therefore, I will not pursue that aspect of the difference between the two countries. The hon. Gentleman asked about beer. There are breweries which produce beer, though of a lower specific gravity in most cases than in this country. He asked if the first Schedule was identical with the first Schedule of exceptions in the Import Duties Bill. It is not completely identical. He will find three items at the end of the last which differ from our own Bill. I have answered the hon. Gentleman's specific questions and I hope the House will acquit me of any desire to smuggle through a Measure in which he rightly takes considerable interest.