HC Deb 18 March 1932 vol 263 cc649-59
Sir P. HARRIS

I beg to move, in page 21, line 1, to leave out Sub-section (1), and to insert instead thereof the words: (1) A Board shall within two years be established, under the Agricultural Marketing Act, 1931, for the purpose of regulating the marketing of home-grown wheat, and the Minister shall, after consultation with the Wheat Commission, transfer to the Board any functions of the Committee with respect to registered growers as he thinks fit, and any such order shall contain such consequential provisions as may be necessary for giving effect to the transfer. This Clause obviously shows the Government's desire to make use of the Agricultural Marketing Act, 1931. References have been made throughout the discussions on the Bill to the existence of that Act and the desirability of utilising it for the smooth working of this Measure, but all that has been very much in the air. It has been left to chance, or to the initiative of the farmers themselves and the other interests concerned, to take action. I am going to help the Government by proposing to make this Clause operative. I spent a considerable part of my life in New Zealand, and there I learned from practical experience the tremendous advantage of efficient marketing and agricultural co-operation. I see in a report recently published that New Zealand is conspicuous among non-European countries for the high yield per acre. Its yield of 34.4 bushels per acre far surpasses that of other wheat- producing countries outside Europe, and with the exception of Denmark and Holland surpasses those on the Continent of Europe. That has been due very largely, of course, to the advantages of soil and climate which New Zealand enjoys, but it has also been largely due to agricultural organisation and efficient marketing by which the farmers have been encouraged to join together and to make the fullest use of the natural advantages of the land which they cultivate.

We assume that this Bill aims at including agriculture and at helping the farmers, generally, to raise the standard of cultivation. I think that is not an unreasonable assumption, but if the Bill is to work smoothly it is quite clear that the farmers must cease to look upon themselves as isolated citizens who have no contact with their neighbours. Many years ago when I was a candidate for an agricultural constituency—[Interruption.] Well, the fact that I was recently elected president of an organisation in that constituency shows that the memory which I left behind was not a bad one. I remember making a valiant attempt to organise the marketing of strawberries in that district. Complaints were made, on the one hand, of bad prices received in Covent Garden, and, on the other hand, of high railway rates. I took the trouble to go to the railway companies and to suggest that my friends the market gardeners were being badly treated. As a result of my representations I got an undertaking that at a certain hour a truck should be at the station of a particular market gardening district in order that a low railway rate should be given to the farmers on their strawberries. The undertaking was given on one condition, that they would agree to send their strawberries to market from that station, on the old London Chatham and Dover line, through the same agent, so that the truck could be rapidly cleared.

2.0 p.m.

I thought that was a great stroke for my strawberry-growers and I went back to them very pleased with the offer, but it was turned down at once in the district. It was turned down for the—I do not say practical, but very strange—reason that they would not agree that their neighbours should know the prices they were getting for their strawberries. The one thing to which they would not consent was to send their goods through the same agent. That is tradition more than anything else. If you transplanted these same growers to New Zealand—people of the same race, the same nationality, the same language, the same skill—the whole atmosphere would be changed and they would become at once advocates of co-operation and up-to-date marketing. The result is that there they make the thing pay, although they get lower prices for their produce and have to send that produce across the Pacific and the Atlantic to be sold. The only hope to break down that tradition is in the House of Commons—[HON. MEMBERS: "Hear, hear!"]—though I admit that it does not look very hopeful this afternoon. I gather from the lusty applause of the First Commissioner of Works that I have his sympathy. But, as a matter of fact, sympathy is not enough. We want that sympathy translated into action by the acceptance of my proposal. I suggest that time is an important factor in this matter and that you may not have such a good opportunity again. After three years this Measure, I hope, will lapse, because I do not desire to keep it on the Statute Book. But, at any rate, it is an instrument for giving the farmers a large subsidy, and as such it is a splendid instrument by which to bring pressure to bear on the agricultural interests so as to bring them to reason. If they were made to understand that within two or three years some form of marketing must be organised under the Agricultural Marketing Act, 1931, a great step forward might be made in that direction and a great deal of the objection to this Bill would be removed if it did bring about better organisation.

Lastly, and most important of all, it would make the working of the Bill very much cheaper. The great difficulty at present is that if you have hundreds of registered farmers, all having to produce these certificates and receipts, it is going to add largely to the cost of working the Bill. But if they are organised in a marketing scheme, it will be much simpler for them to buy their wheat. They will be able to buy it wholesale instead of retail. It will simplify the accounts and incidentally the farmer will get prices for his wheat which will be more evenly distributed, and there will be a, fairer distribution of the dole or bonus or whatever you like to call it, and everybody will gain. By accepting my alternative to Sub-section (1) I believe that the Minister will do a good turn to the agricultural industry.

Mr. ATTLEE

I support the Amendment, the effect of which would be to change this Clause from a mere pious hope into an order which would have a definite effect. When we were discussing the Agricultural Marketing Act in Committee the point was always made that its provisions would be all right, if only they were backed up by some form of protection or subsidy. Now we have a subsidy, and it is time, therefore, that we saw to it that the marketing side was included definitely and not left merely with the expression of a wish or a hope. As the Clause stands, it merely suggests that a board may be established. We have always taken the line that, if you are giving these benefits to a particular industry, you should insist on proper organisation. In the course of these discussions, the opinion has been expressed several times that full advantage could not be taken of the Bill unless there was organisation of the wheat producers. A great deal of discussion would have been saved if provision had been made for definite organisation of these growers, and the Bill, as it stands, obviously lacks that particular piece of machinery. You have set up a Wheat Commission, you have organised your millers, and the bakers are more or less organised already, but you merely express a hope that the farmers may organise. Why not make it definite, and why not make the benefits of the Bill to the farmers dependent on their taking action?

It may be said that the time given in the Amendment is too short, but it does not lie in the mouth of hon. Members opposite to allege that, because when the Marketing Bill was going through, they took every possible step they could to make it difficult to bring a marketing board into operation. Every time they said you must wait for six months or for five months, and so on, and the Minister had sometimes to accept that position because he was in a minority. There was a certain number of Liberals, but they were not dependable, and therefore we had no real majority at all. There are Liberals who can be depended on now and again, but there are some who cannot and who have now become Conservatives. Hon. Members opposite are beginning to regret that they put in all these rather quibbling little provisions to cause delay, because I see that to-day the Scottish Board is beginning to get under way, but they can easily bring in a short Bill—under our modern procedure these things can be got through very quickly—to speed up the machinery of the Agricultural Marketing Act. We say, in this Amendment, that if you want to get orderly marketing and the best possible advantage out of this Bill, you must insist on the marketing organisation being produced by the farmers themselves, and you must see that every part of the machinery for producing bread is properly organised and, as we wish, properly controlled in the public interest.

Mr. ORMSBY-GORE

I do not propose to deal with the broad issues as to the excellence or non-excellence of the Agricultural Marketing Act of 1931, not to go into the history of the form and development of that. Act, as has been done by the hon. Member for Limehouse (Mr. Attlee). Suffice it to say that, as a Member of the Committee that dealt with that Bill, I cannot accept his version, even with regard to my own attitude.

Mr. ATTLEE

The right hon. Gentleman was one of the reasonable Members.

Mr. ORMSBY-GORE

I will pass from that subject except to say that a great many of the Amendments moved to that Bill were not brought forward under any pressure from any Opposition, but were volunteered by the Minister himself. The mere fact that that Act is a permissive and enabling Act makes it impossible to incorporate this Amendment in this Bill, because this Amendment is mandatory, and there is no power in the Act of 1931 to compel anybody to establish a board within two years. There are no provisions in the Addison Act which would enable any Minister or anybody else to establish a board unless there was a voluntary, statutory majority of the producers in favour of it, and unless that could be secured, it could not function at all. Therefore, it is questionable whether this Amendment, if carried, would or could be in order. There is no power at present by which the Minister can impose any board upon the producers, and I think it is very desirable that the right hon. Gentleman should not have power ad hoc to impose a board of this kind.

The hon. Baronet the Member for South West Bethnal Green (Sir P. Harris), who spoke of his experience of New Zealand, knows that the great success of co-operation in New Zealand and in other countries rests on the voluntary enthusiasm of the farmers for that very thing, on the fact that the producers themselves are keenly behind it, and that it has not been imposed upon them by politicians. Until we can get that spirit here, we shall not get the farmers here to do it. Personally, I hope, and I am sure the Minister hopes, that we shall see a change of spirit in the producers in this country in regard to the marketing question. I have had exactly the same experience as the hon. Baronet. I have been in most parts of the British Empire, and I have always found that Britishers, who in this country are intensely individualistic and violently Free Trade, the moment they get to a British dominion or colony become keen protectionists; and the two things invariably go together. That has been my experience in Canada, Australia, Africa, and everywhere, and that has been the experience all over the world. That is why there is not a single British dominion or colony that does not go in for agricultural co-operation and tariff protection.

Do not let us, by such an Amendment as this, make an idol of the Act of 1931. I believe that that Act will be useful. That is and always has been my view, and I have adopted the line that, although it has certain imperfections, it may be a useful Act, but let us not do what Dr. Addison himself never contemplated doing. Let us not try to force it on people who do not want it, and let us recognise its limitations. It is quite possible that under these provisions the mere fact that you will be dealing with a Wheat Commission may bring the producers together, not necessarily for the full purpose or all the purposes of the Act of 1931, but for the purposes of grading and the like, and for fitting in with the machinery set up by the Wheat Commission, which will lighten both the burden and the trouble of the farmers and will generally improve the conditions under which wheat is marketed in this country. If you attempt to impose that, as this Amendment seeks to do, you will find that you will have no power to carry out your plan, and you will fail in achieving the object of getting a change of heart in the agricultural community in the direction of better co-operation in marketing.

Sir S. CRIPPS

I do not quite understand the right hon. Gentleman's argument. He says that farmers here are all Free Traders and individualists, whereas in the Dominions they are all Protectionists and co-operators. He says that you must not impose these things upon farmers here. May I ask whether the Government have not imposed Protection upon them? Now we are asking that a Marketing Board should be imposed upon them, which seems a reasonable request to make. Why is it that the right hon. Gentleman and his colleagues are still hankering after this individualism? Anybody who looks at this Bill must admit that they have been largely converted to Socialism. [Interruption.] It is all very well for hon. Members to laugh, but what is the Wheat Commission, under the control of the Minister—

Sir WILFRID SUGDEN

Why, then, do you not vote for it?

Sir S. CRIPPS

I am only pointing out that, having taken one step, it seems stupid not to take the other step. The right hon. Gentleman puts control on the millers and as regards the purchase of wheat, but he says that the farmers must not be touched. They must be left to the traditional individualism which has always made the conduct of their trade so unfortunate. The right hon. Gentleman appreciates, I know, that the trouble about co-operation among farmers is always the minority. Time after time useful schemes of co-operation have been started in this country which would have been a great success and of inestimable value to the farmer if only the minority had not held out. Take a case with which I am familiar, the wool marketing scheme, which was very successful, and led to extra profits for the farmers, and which, for the first time, put English wool on the London Wool Market in properly graded and sorted qualities. But again, owing to the minority of the farmers who stood out, it was not fully successful, and got into a bad way as all co-operative efforts have always done. We are asking that in this case—[Interruption]—I think, if the right hon. Gentleman looks into it, he will find that it is in a very unfortunate financial position. I happen to be interested in it as one of the guarantors.

Mr. ORMSBY-GORE

I think that the hon. and learned Gentleman misunderstood what I said. I was talking about the success in Scotland.

Sir S. CRIPPS

The Scots are far less individualistic than the English. [HoN. MEMBERS: "Oh."] That must follow if co-operation works better in Scotland than in England. It seems only reasonable that, as one of the conditions of this subsidy, there should be this co-operation which everyone recognises as being desirable. It is imposed on the millers, and why not on the farmers? It seems to me that the right hon. Gentleman is unduly afraid of the representatives of the rural constituencies who sit behind him, and who suddenly want to urge this individualism upon him. If he does not like this particular form of alteration in the Clause, I am sure that the hon. Baronet will be prepared to accept another form, or there is a new Clause on the Order Paper which would assist the Minister in expediting the setting up of a Marketing Board in a voluntary way. We want some provision in this Measure which will not merely be an expression of a hope that a Marketing Board will be set up, but which is a definite pressure put upon the farmers to do what the right hon. Gentleman and everybody else agree is desirable. We do ask the right hon. Gentleman, even if be is not going to accept this Amendment, to put into the Bill some provision that will give a very strong and definite inducement to farmers to set up a co-operative board of this sort, and not merely leave it to a pious expression. Unless we can get some guarantee of that sort, we shall certainly have to divide upon this Amendment.

Question put, "That the words proposed to be left out stand part of the Clause".

The Committee divided: Ayes, 189; Noes, 33.

Division No. 125]. AYES. [12.47 p.m.
Acland-Troyte, Lieut.-Colonel Bower, Lieut.-Com. Robert Tatton Chalmers, John Rutherford
Adams, Samuel Vyvyan T. (Leeds, W.) Bowyer, Capt. Sir George E. W. Chapman, Col. R. (Houghton-le-Spring)
Agnew, Lieut.-Com. p. G. Bracken, Brendan Cobb, Sir Cyril
Allen, Lt.-Col. J. Sandeman (B'k'nh'd) Braithwaite, J. G. (Hillsborough) Colville, John
Amery, Rt. Hon. Leopold C. M. S. Briscoe, Capt. Richard George Conant, R. J. E.
Applin, Lieut.-Col. Reginald V. K. Broadbent, Colonel John Cook, Thomas A.
Aske, Sir Robert William Brown, Ernest (Leith) Cooke, Douglas
Atholl, Duchess of Brown, Brig.-Gen. H.C.(Berks., Newb'y) Cowan, D. M.
Baldwin, Rt. Hon. Stanley Browne, Captain A. C. Crookshank, Capt. H. C. (Gainsb'ro)
Barclay-Harvey, C. M. Buchan-Hepburn, P. G. T. Davies, Edward C. (Montgomery)
Beauchamp, Sir Brograve Campbell Campbell-Johnston, Malcolm Davies, Maj. Geo. F.(Somerset, Yeovil)
Benn, Sir Arthur Shirley Carver, Major William H. Denman, Hon. R. D.
Bernays, Robert Cautley, Sir Henry S. Dickie, John p.
Blindell, James Cayzer, Sir Charles (Chester, City) Donner, P. W.
Boulton, W. W. Cazalet, Thelma (Islington, E.) Drewe, Cedric
Duggan, Hubert John Mabane, William Russell, Hamer Field (Sheffield, B'tside)
Duncan, James A. L. (Kensington, N.) MacAndrew, Capt. J. O. (Ayr) Samuel, Sir Arthur Michael (F'nham)
Edmondson, Major A. J. MacDonald, Malcolm (Bassetlaw) Savery, Samuel Servington
Elmley, Viscount McKie, John Hamilton Scone, Lord
Emmott, Charles E. G. C. McLean, Major Alan Shakespeare, Geoffrey H.
Erskine, Lord (Weston-super-Mare) McLean, Dr. W. H. (Tradeston) Shaw, Helen B. (Lanark, Bothwell)
Erskine-Bolst, Capt. C. C. (Blackpool) Macquisten, Frederick Alexander Simmonds, Oliver Edwin
Everard, W. Lindsay Magnay, Thomas Sinclair, Maj. Rt. Hn. Sir A.(C'thness)
Fuller, Captain A. G. Makins, Brigadier-General Ernest Skelton, Archibald Noel
Fox, Sir Gifford Mallalieu, Edward Lancelot Smith, R. W. (Ab'rd'n & Kinc'dine, C.)
Ganzoni, Sir John Marjoribanks, Edward Smith-Carington, Neville W.
Gilmour, Lt.-Col. Rt. Hon. Sir John Marsden, Commander Arthur Somervell, Donald Bradley
Gluckstein, Louis Halle Martin, Thomas B. Somerville, Annesley A. (Windsor)
Golf, Sir Park Mason, David M. (Edinburgh, E.) Soper, Richard
Goodman, Colonel Albert W. Mayhew, Lieut.-Colonel John Sotheron-Estcourt, Captain T. E.
Grattan-Doyle, Sir Nicholas Mills, Sir Frederick (Leyton, E.) Southby, Commander Archibald R. J.
Greene, William P. C. Mills, Major J. D. (New Forest) Spender-Clay, Rt. Hon. Herbert H.
Griffith, F. Kingsley (Middlesbro', W.) Molson, A. Hugh Elsdale Stanley, Hon. O. F. G. (Westmorland)
Grimston, R. V. Morris, Owen Temple (Cardiff, E.) Stones, James
Guinness, Thomas L. E. B. Moss, Captain H. J. Storey, Samuel
Hamilton, Sir George (Ilford) Muirhead, Major A. J. Stourton, Hon. John J.
Hanley, Dennis A. Munro, Patrick Strauss, Edward A.
Hannon, Patrick Joseph Henry Nation, Brigadier-General J. J. H. Strickland, Captain W. F.
Harris, Sir Percy Nicholson, Godfrey (Morpeth) Stuart, Hon. J. (Moray and Nairn)
Haslam, Henry (Lindsay, H'ncastle) Nicholson, Rt. Hn. W. G. (Petersf'ld) Sugden, Sir Wilfrid Hart
Headlam, Lieut.-Col. Cuthbert M. Normand, Wilfrid Guild Tate, Mavis Constance
Heneage, Lieut.-Colonel Arthur P. North, Captain Edward T. Templeton, William P.
Hills, Major Rt. Hon. John Waller Ormsby-Gore, Rt. Hon. William G. A. Thomson, Sir Frederick Charles
Howard, Tom Forrest Palmer, Francis Noel Titchfield, Major the Marquess of
Howitt, Dr. Alfred B. Pearson, William G. Todd, A. L. S. (Kingswinford)
Hunter, Dr. Joseph (Dumfries) Perkins, Walter R. D. Touche, Gordon Cosmo
Hurst, Sir Gerald B. Petherick, M. Tryon, Rt. Hon. George Clement
Hutchison, W. D. (Essex, Romf'd) Peto, Geoffrey K.(W'verh'pt'n, Bilst'n) Wallace, Captain D. E. (Hornsey)
Inskip, Rt. Hon. Sir Thomas W. H. Potter, John Ward, Lt.-Col. Sir A. L. (Hull)
Iveagh, Countess of Powell, Lieut.-Col. Evelyn G. H. Ward, Irene Mary Bewick (Wallsend)
Jackson, Sir Henry (Wandsworth, C.) Pybus, Percy John Ward, Sarah Adelaide (Cannock)
Johnstone, Harcourt (S. Shields) Raikes, Henry V. A. M. Warrender, Sir Victor A. G.
Kerr, Hamilton W. Ramsay, T. B. W. (Western Isles) Wedderburn, Henry James Scrymgeour.
Kimball, Lawrence Ramsden, E. Weymouth, Viscount
Lamb, Sir Joseph Quinton Ratcliffe, Arthur Williams, Charles (Devon, Torquay)
Law, Richard K. (Hull. S.W.) Rea, Walter Russell Williams, Herbert G. (Croydon, S.)
Leckie, J. A. Reed, Arthur C. (Exeter) Wills, Wilfrid D.
Leech, Dr. J. W. Reid, David D. (County Down) Windsor-Clive, Lieut.-Colonel George
Leighton, Major B. E. P. Reid, William Allan (Derby) Winterton, Rt. Hon. Earl
Lennox-Boyd, A. T. Reynolds, Col. Sir James Philip Womersley, Walter James
Levy, Thomas Robinson, John Roland Worthington, Dr. John V.
Lindsay, Noel Ker Ropner, Colonel L. Wragg, Herbert
Lloyd, Geoffrey Rosbotham, S. T. Young, Rt. Hon. Sir Hilton (S'v'noaks)
Lockwood, John C. (Hackney, C.) Ross Taylor, Walter (Woodbridge)
Loder, Captain J. de Vere Ruggles-Brise, Colonel E. A. TELLERS FOR THE AYES.—
Lovat-Fraser, James Alexander Runge, Norah Cecil Sir George Penny and Captain
Lumley, Captain Lawrence R. Russell, Alexander West (Tynemouth) Austin Hudson.
NOES.
Adams, D. M. (Poplar, South) Grenfell, David Rees (Glamorgan) Lunn, William
Attlee, Clement Richard Groves, Thomas E. McEntee, Valentine L.
Brown, C. W. E. (Notts., Mansfield) Grundy, Thomas W. Parkinson, John Allen
Cape, Thomas Hall, F. (York, W.R., Normanton) Price, Gabriel
Cove, William G. Hall, George H. (Merthyr Tydvil) Thorne, William James
Cripps, Sir Stafford Hirst, George Henry Tinker, John Joseph
Daggar, George Jenkins, Sir William Williams, David (Swansea, East)
Davies, David L. (Pontypridd) Jones, Morgan (Caerphilly) Williams, Thomas (York, Don Valley)
Davies, Rhys John (Westhoughton) Lansbury, Rt. Hon. George
Edwards, Charles Lawson, John James TELLERS FOR THE NOES.—
George, Megan A. Lloyd (Anglesea) Logan, David Gilbert Mr. John and Mr. Gordon
Macdonald.

Question, "That the Clause stand part of the Bill" put, and agreed to.

Division No. 126.] AYES. [2.21 p.m.
Acland-Troyte, Lieut.-Colonel Gluckstein, Louis Halle Peat, Charles U.
Adams, Samuel Vyvyan T. (Leeds, V;.) Goff, Sir Park Penny, Sir George
Agnew, Lieut.-Com. P. G. Goodman, Colonel Albert W. Perkins, Walter R. D.
Albery, Irving James Gower, Sir Robert Petherick, M
Allen, Lt.-Col. J. Sandeman (B'k'nh'd) Grattan-Doyle, Sir Nicholas Peto, Gooffrey K.(W'verh'pt'n, Bilst'n)
Amery, Rt. Hon. Leopold C. M. S. Greene, William P. C. Potter, John
Applin, Lieut.-Col. Reginald V. K. Grimston, R. V. Powell, Lieut.-Col. Evelyn G. H.
Aske, Sir Robert William Guinness, Thomas L. E. B. Ralkes, Henry V. A. M.
Atholl, Duchess of Hacking, Rt. Hon. Douglas H. Ramsay, T. B. W. (Western Isles)
Baldwin, Rt. Hon. Stanley Hall, Lieut.-Col. Sir F. (Dulwich) Ramsden, E.
Balfour, Capt. Harold (1. of Thanet) Hammersley, Samuel S. Rea, Walter Russell
Barclay-Harvey, C. M. Hanley, Dennis A. Reed, Arthur C. (Exeter)
Barrie, Sir Charles Coupar Hannon, Patrick Joseph Henry Reid, David D. (County Down)
Beauchamp, Sir Brograve Campbell Haslam, Henry (Lindsay, H'ncastle) Reid, William Allan (Derby)
Beaumont, Hon. R.E.B. (Portsm'th. C.) Hills, Major Rt. Hon. John Waller Reynolds, Col. Sir James Philip
Betterton, Rt. Hon. Sir Henry B. Howard, Tom Forrest Robinson, John Roland
Bevan, Stuart James (Holborn) Howitt, Dr. Alfred B. Ropner, Colonel L.
Boulton, W. W. Hudson, Capt. A. U. M.(Hackney, N.) Rosbotham, S. T.
Bower, Lieut.-Com. Robert Tatton Hunter, Dr. Joseph (Dumfries) Ross Taylor, Walter (Woodbrldge)
Bowyer, Capt. Sir George E. W. Hurst, Sir Gerald B. Ruggles-Brise, Colonel E. A.
Braithwaite, J. G. (Hillsborough) Hutchison, W. D. (Essex, Romf'd) Runge, Norah Cecil
Briscoe, Capt. Richard George Jackson, Sir Henry (Wandsworth, C.) Samuel, Sir Arthur Michael (F'nham)
Brown, Ernest (Leith) Kerr, Hamilton W. Sanderson, Sir Frank Barnard
Brown, Brig.-Gen. H. C.(Berks., Newb'y) Kimball, Lawrence Savery, Samuel Servington
Browne, Captain A. C. Knatchbull, Captain Hon. M. H. R. Scone, Lord
Buchan-Hepburn, P. G. T. Lamb, Sir Joseph Quinton Shakespeare, Geoffrey H.
Burgin, Dr. Edward Leslie Law, Richard K. (Hull, S.W.) Shaw, Helen B. (Lanark, Both well)
Campbell, Edward Taswell (Bromley) Leech, Dr. J. W. Sinclair, Maj. Rt. Hn. Sir A.(C'thness)
Cambpell, Rear-Adml. G. (Burnley) Leighton, Major B. E. P. Skelton, Archibald Noel
Campbell-Johnston, Malcolm Lennox-Boyd, A. T. Smith, R. W.(Ab'rd'n & Kinc'dine, C.)
Cautley, Sir Henry S. Levy, Thomas Smith-Carington, Neville W.
Cayzer, Sir Charles (Chester, City) Lindsay, Noel Ker Somervell, Donald Bradley
Cazalet, Thelma (Islington, E.) Lloyd, Geoffrey Somerville, Annesley A. (Windsor)
Chalmers, John Rutherford Lockwood, John C. (Hackney, C.) Sotheron-Estcourt, Captain T. E.
Chapman, Col. R. (Houghton-le-Spring) Lovat-Fraser, James Alexander Southby, Commander Archibald R. J.
Chapman, Sir Samuel (Edinburgh, S.) Lumley, Captain Lawrence R. Stanley, Hon. O. F. G. (Westmorland)
Chorlton, Alan Ernest Leotric Mabane, William Stones, James
Chotzner, Alfred James MacAndrew, Capt. J. O. (Ayr) Storey, Samuel
Christie, James Archibald Mac Donald, Malcolm (Bassetlaw) Strauss, Edward A.
Cobb, Sir Cyril McKie, John Hamilton Strickland, Captain W. F.
Colman, N. C. D. McLean, Major Alan Stuart, Hon. J. (Moray and Nairn)
Colville, John McLean, Dr. W. H. (Tradeston) Sugden, Sir Wilfrid Hart
Conant, R. J. E. Macquisten, Frederick Alexander Tate, Mavis Constance
Cook, Thomas A. Magnay, Thomas Templeton, William P.
Craddock, Sir Reginald Henry Maitland, Adam Thomson, Sir Frederick Charles
Crookshank, Capt. H. C. (Gainsb'ro) Makins, Brigadier-General Ernest Titchfield, Major the Marquess of
Cross, R. H. Marsden, Commander Arthur Todd, A. L. S. (Kingswinford)
Denman, Hon. R. D. Mason, Col. Glyn K. (Croydon, N.) Touche, Gordon Cosmo
Dickie, John P. Mills, Sir Frederick (Leyton, E.) Tryon, Rt. Hon. George Clement
Donner, P. W. Mills, Major J. D. (New Forest) Vaughan-Morgan, Sir Kenyon
Drewe, Cedric Milne, John Sydney Wardlaw- Wallace, Captain D. E. (Hornsey)
Duggan, Hubert John Molson, A. Hugh Elsdale Ward, Lt.-Col, Sir A. L. (Hull)
Duncan, James A. L. (Kensington, N.) Morris, Owen Temple (Cardiff, E.) Ward, Sarah Adelaide (Cannock)
Eastwood, John Francis Moss, Captain H. J. Warrender, Sir Victor A. G.
Edmondson, Major A. J. Muirhead, Major A. J. Wedderburn, Henry James Scrymgeour.
Elmley, Viscount Munro, Patrick Weymouth, Viscount
Erskine, Lord (Weston-super-Mare) Nation, Brigadier-General J. J. H. Williams, Charles (Devon, Torquay)
Erskine-Bolst, Capt. C. C. (Blackpool) Newton, Sir Douglas George C. Williams, Herbert G. (Croydon, S.)
Everard, W. Lindsay Nicholson, Godfrey (Morpeth) Wills, Wilfrid D.
Flint, Abraham John Normand, Wilfrid Guild Worthington, Dr. John V.
Fox, Sir Gifford O'Donovan, Dr. William James Wragg, Herbert
Fuller, Captain A. G. Ormsby-Gore, Rt. Hon. William G. A.
Ganzoni, Sir John Palmer, Francis Noel TELLERS FOR THE AYES—
Gilmour, Lt.-Col. Rt. Hon. Sir John Pearson, William G. Mr. Womersley and Major George
Davies.
NOES.
Adams, D. M. (Poplar, South) Foot, Dingle (Dundee) McEntee, Valentine L.
Attlee, Clement Richard Grenfell, David Rees (Glamorgan) Mallalieu, Edward Lancelot
Briant, Frank Grundy, Thomas W. Mason, David M. (Edinburgh, E.)
Brown, C. W. E. (Notts., Mansfield) Hall, F. (York, W.R., Normanton) Parkinson, John Allen
Cape, Thomas Hall, George H. (Merthyr Tydvil) Price, Gabriel
Cove, William G. Hirst, George Henry Tinker, John Joseph
Cowan, D. M. Jenkins, Sir William Williams, David (Swansea, East)
Cripps, Sir Stafford John, William Williams, Dr. John H. (Llanelly)
Daggar, George Jones, Morgan (Caerphilly) Williams, Thomas (York, Don Valley)
Davies, David L. (Pontypridd) Lansbury, Rt. Hon. George
Davies, Rhys John (Westhoughton) Lawson, John James TELLERS FOR THE NOES—
Edwards, Charles Lunn, William Sir Percy Harris and Mr. Groves.

Motion made, and Question proposed, "That the Clause stand part of the Bill".

Lieut.-Colonel SANDEMAN ALLEN

I should like to ask the Minister for a short explanation of the functions that the Agricultural Marketing Board will take. There is a fear in Liverpool that if we establish a Wheat Commission consisting of neutral people, the whole of the business will fall into the hands of the people who are merely interested in selling the commodity. The hon. Member for South West Bethnal Green (Sir P. Harris) brought it out clearly when he said, in advocating the Agricultural Marketing Act, 1931, that he hoped the farmer would get a higher price for wheat. It seems inconsistent on his part, having strongly opposed this Bill, that he should hope the farmers will get a higher price. I would like an explanation of the powers that will be given to this Board. I am not afraid of them, because any order made by them will have to come before the House, but I merely ask for information.

Sir J. GILMOUR

This body will deal with the registration of growers, the setting up of records, and the like. I cannot think that the buyer will be placed at any disadvantage at all and it is wrong to suggest that the sellers will gain an advantage over other interests by the keeping of proper records. It will do no damage to the buyer, and I even think that it will be an advantage to him.

Question put, and agreed to.