HC Deb 06 December 1932 vol 272 cc1543-6

9.17 p.m.

The ATTORNEY-GENERAL

I beg to move, in page 72, line 20, to leave out the word "hours" and to insert instead thereof the word "periods."

This is to enable the Minister to make regulations with regard to any period where it is more or less than a day.

Sir K. VAUGHAN - MORGAN

I should like to put a question on this point. This action is taken under Section 10 of the London Traffic Act, 1924, and I should like to ask why the words in this Bill do not follow the words of the Section in the 1924 Act. There it is stated that For the purpose of relieving congestion and facilitating traffic in and near London. That part has been left out of the present Bill, and I should like to know the reason, if any, why a different wording has been adopted in this case.

The ATTORNEY-GENERAL

In the 1924 Act the controlling words were for "the purpose of relieving congestion," but it is now necessary to introduce these controlling words because the purpose of this Bill is not merely to deal with congestion but with the matter from a broader point of view.

Mr. C. WILLIAMS

Does this in any way regulate the hours of the men employed? Those who are interested in the labour side of this subject ought to have some idea as to whether the Minister has any power for dealing with long hours.

The ATTORNEY-GENERAL

The regulations in this Clause are only for the purpose of controlling vehicular and other traffic, and have no connection with hours of labour.

Mr. WILLIAMS

When the Government propose to regulate these matters in the interests of the companies they do not propose to put in any power to regulate the hours of the men employed, or deal with the danger to the public if men have to drive for long hours. That is a, curious omission.

The ATTORNEY-GENERAL

It is dealt with by other legislation, which prevents men from working beyond a certain number of hours. This Clause is not the place to deal with such a matter.

Amendment agreed to.

9.20 p.m.

Lieut.-Colonel HEADLAM

I beg to move, in page 72, line 34, after the word "vehicle," to insert the words: the route on which !he vehicle is being operated. This is to remove a doubt as to whether the regulations with reference to matters in paragraph (c) of the Third Schedule to the London Traffic Act of 1924 regulate properly the use of stopping places. It is merely to clear up the point.

Amendment agreed to.

Motion made, and Question proposed, "That the Clause, as amended, stand part of the Bill."

9.21 p.m.

Mr. C. WILLIAMS

This is a convenient place at which the Attorney-General might give the Committee some information as to what are the theories and ideas of the Minister of Transport in dealing with the important questions with which he will have to deal under this Clause by regulations. The Clause, I understand, gives the Minister power to deal with the rush periods, and he cannot have taken such powers without clear and definite ideas as to the regulations he proposes to make. Some of us would like to know what are the kind of regu lations he proposes to issue. Obviously, he is going to do something. I cannot conceive that he has no knowledge of what he is going to do. He must have some knowledge, and the Committee is entitled to know what is in the Minister's mind. Again, if this scheme is to be successful we do not want too much Ministerial interference. We want to be sure that the Minister will not be continually interfering with the management of the board.

Lieut.-Colonel HEADLAM

I cannot believe that the Committee at this late hour and at this stage of the Bill would really like me to do what the hon. Member for Torquay (Mr. Williams) suggests. But if it is any satisfaction to him may I say that I have here a list of things which the Minister can do by way of regulation, and if the Committee wishes I will read it out.

HON. MEMBERS

No.

Mr. C. WILLIAMS

Read it.

Sir K. VAUGHAN-MORGAN

Hear, hear!

Lieut.-Colonel HEADLAM

I take it that the Committee does not wish it to be done. All I can say it that the Minister is fully alive to his responsibilities under this Bill and will make such regulations as are necessary when the time comes.

Mr. WILLIAMS

The position is that the Minister knows what he intends to do but he does not wish the Committee to know. That is a curious position. I am sorry to have to say this. I made my suggestion in all kindness, and I hope the Committee will be allowed to know what is to be the policy of the Minister.

Sir K. VAUGHAN-MORGAN

Hear, hear!

9.23 p.m.

Lieut.-Colonel HEADLAM

If my hon. Friends are anxious to know what the Committee does rot wish to be read I will read one or two of the regulations which might be made. A regulation might be made for prescribing the routes to be followed by all classes of traffic or by any particular class of traffic or vehicles from one specified point to another; or for prescribing the conditions subject to which and the times at which articles may be loaded on to or unloaded from vehicles or vehicles of any particular class or description on the streets—

Mr. WILLIAMS

Is that all?

Clause 63 (Consequential and minor Amendments) ordered to stand part of the Bill.