§ 2. Mr. EDWARD WILLIAMSasked the Minister of Labour what representations were made by his Department to the Glamorgan Public Assistance Committee with regard to the administration of the means test for transitional payment; and what reply has been received?
§ Sir H. BETTERTONThe attention of the Glamorgan County Council was drawn to serious infraction of the provisions of Article 1 (4) of the Order in 969 Council in rules drawn up for the guidance of their guardians committees and in determinations given within their area. I am happy to say the council have informed me in reply that they have withdrawn the illegal rules and that all cases will in future be dealt with on their merits. I should like to take this opportunity of expressing my appreciation of the manner in which my representations have been met.
§ 8. Mr. KIRKWOODasked the Minister of Labour whether he will appoint a committee to inquire into the working of the means test with a view to its abolition?
§ Sir H. BETTERTONNo, Sir.
§ Mr. KIRKWOODDoes not the Minister see that it is time that he gave, some consideration to the demonstration's which are going on throughout the length and breadth of the country at the present time as a result of the harsh treatment which is being meted out to tens of thousands of workmen under the means test?
§ Mr. SPEAKERThis is not the time to debate the question.
§ Mr. KIRKWOODI hope that the question which I am putting now is in order in relation to the original question. I received a definite answer and that was "no," and my supplementary question, following upon that, asks whether the conditions in the country to-day do not demand that the Minister should do something.
§ Mr. SPEAKERThe Minister gave a very definite answer to the question upon the Paper, and I said that this is not the time to debate the question.
§ Mr. KIRKWOODWith all due respect to you, Sir, it is not an attempt to debate the question, but it is a very serious matter affecting tens of thousands of people, and the Minister ought to give a reply to the question.
§ Mr. HOLFORD KNIGHTHas the attention of my right hon. Friend been called to the numerous demonstrations which are taking place up and down the country by men out of work and subject to the means test, and what action are the Government going to take?
§ Mr. SPEAKERMr. Kirkwood.
§ Mr. KNIGHTOn a point of Order. Can I not have an answer?
§ Mr. SPEAKERIt is not a time for debate, and I am not going to allow it.
§ Mr. KIRKWOODSurely that is evidence that something is wrong.
§ 9. Mr. BRIANTasked the Minister of Labour if he will furnish a statement showing the total number of persons who were refused transitional payment, or who were granted it at less than the maximum rate, during the months of January and February and were subsequently, during the following four weeks, granted relief by public assistance committees, or a similar statement for typical public assistance areas?
§ Sir H. BETTERTONAs my hon. Friend knows, the amount of transitional payments is assessed by the public assistance authority. If an applicant who is otherwise qualified for such payments has been assessed at less than the full rate, I find it difficult to conceive any circumstances in which the same authority would give what would be in effect a contradictory decision by granting relief. I know that statements to the contrary were made in last Monday's Debate, but think this must have been due to some misunderstanding, and if any hon. Member knows of such a case, T should be glad to have particulars.
§ Mr. KIRKWOODHas the hon. Gentleman yet thought fit to issue instructions to public assistance committees to standardise public assistance in the same way as unemployment insurance benefit, and to give as much as the recipients would get if they were drawing unemployment insurance benefit?
§ Sir H. BETTERTONAs the hon. Gentleman knows, I have no power to issue instructions. If I understood the hon. Gentleman's question correctly, however, I rather gather that it ought to be put down to the Ministry of Health.
§ Mr. KIRKWOODWhen we put a question to the Minister of Health he says that it ought to be put to the Minister of Labour, and each Minister pushes it off from one to the other. The Minister of Health is shaking his head, but that has been our experience.
§ Mr. SPEAKERThe hon. Member might put it down to both Ministers.