HC Deb 21 September 1931 vol 256 cc1409-12

Resolution reported: That, for the purposes of any Act of the present. Session to authorise the making of Orders in Council for the purpose of effecting economies in expenditure falling, to be defrayed out of public moneys and improvements in the arrangements for meeting such expenditure, it is expedient. to authorise the payment out of moneys provided by Parliament of such sums as may he required by reason of any provision made by such Orders—

  1. (a) for altering the respective proportions in which expenditure in respect of any of the services specified in the said Act is to be defrayed out of any fund established by the enactments relating to any of the said services and out of moneys provided by Parliament;
  2. (b) for increasing the contributions to be made to the unemployment fund or for securing that as from the date on which the Treasury cease to have power to make advances for the purpose of meeting deficiencies in that fund, any such deficiency shall be met out of such moneys as may be provided by Parliament for that purpose."

Motion made, and Question proposed, "That this House doth agree with the Committee in the said Resolution."

Lieut. - Commander KENWORTHY

May we have a word of explanation on this Resolution?

The MINISTER of HEALTH (Mr. Chamberlain)

This is the Report stage of the Money Resolution, of which the Committee stage was taken on Friday.

11.0 p.m.

Mr. STEPHEN

I wish to ask some Member of the Government to give me an answer to a question which I put on Friday and which I put again to-day. The estimate in connection with unemployment is based upon a figure of 3,000,000 persons being unemployed which is about 750,000 more than tin, average hitherto. I wish to know why the situation with regard to unemployment has been painted so much blacker than it really is, and why is there this tremendous increase in the estimate of the number of unemployed? The House will understand that in this matter a great deal has been made about the tremendous expenditure which is going to take place under Unemployment Insurance next year as compared with, last year. I think that the figure which has been estimated is over £130,000,000 altogether, and one reason for that is these exaggerated figures. The right hon. Gentleman the Minister of Health admitted on Friday that the total was 750,000 more than we have had hitherto. I have been trying to get at the state of mind which brought forward this swollen figure. It appears to me that there must have been a definite conspiracy against the unemployed unless we can get some reason for this swollen figure. I should like to get some answer from the Government. The right hon. Gentleman said on Friday that it was taken from the figure of his predecessors. I do not want that as an answer. What was the consideration before the Department that made them think that there would be 750,000 more people unemployed?

Mr. ERNEST BROWN

It is very remarkable to hear the hon. Member for Camlachie (Mr. Stephen) complaining that the estimate for the unemployment register is too large. He has complained, and I have joined him many times in the complaint, during the last year or two, that the estimates were too small. It is very interesting, after only a fortnight of the National Government, to find that a Socialist Member complains that the figure is estimated on too high a mark. Hon. Members opposite should be the last to talk about that. When they came into office there were only 1,100,000 unemployed. Now, there are nearly 2,800,000. [Interruption.] The Government would have been following the sloppy estimates of their predecessors if they had failed to warn the House and the country, and if in making their estimate for dealing with this vast problem of unemployment, they had not adopted an adequate margin. [HON. MEMBERS: "Speak up!"] It is about time some of us on this side spoke up. Hon. Members opposite have been doing all the speaking to-day. Now, they can be quiet and listen.

So far from reproaching the Government for having estimated an unemployment figure of 3,000,000, the Government would have been more cautious had they estimated 3,500,000, after 2¼ years of Socialist mess, muddle and make-believe. [Interruption.] They got the country into a mess and then they ran away from the mess. What is their attitude on the Gold Standard? First, they complained about the Gold Standard and to-day they make protests about the abandonment of the Gold Standard. To-morrow they will turn a third somersault, and then they will pretend that they have been right all the time. They will not be allowed to get away with that in the country. The country will not forget that they have been responsible. [Interruption.] I am dealing with the issue raised by the hon. Member for Camlachie. There are nearly 2,800,000 unemployed, due to the fact that hon. Members opposite, when they go electioneering, think of nothing but doling out other people's gold. We have reached a situation where the right hon. Member for Central Edinburgh (Mr. W. Graham) goes down to Edinburgh—[Interruption]—and is treated by the left wing with cries of "Traitor" [Interruption.] There are at least 100 of those hon. Members who do not represent their constituencies at this moment. No body of respectable citizens can be expected to take the Labour party seriously. No one can be expected to take a party seriously which shows itself quite willing to grasp national power but which will not take national responsibility. The Government are to be congratulated on their caution and courage in dealing with the question of unemployment in this way—