§ 22. Mr. HOPKINasked the President of the Board of Education what is the total sum paid in salaries to teachers in this country not governed by the Burnham scale; and if it is intended that these salaries are to be reduced by 15 per cent.?
§ Sir D. MACLEANI have not the information to enable me to answer the first part of the question in the terms in which it is put. If, however, the hon. Member has in mind the case of supplementary teachers in elementary schools, I may say that the total sum paid in salaries to such teachers, in the financial year 1930–31, was approximately £730,000. As regards the second part of the question I would refer the hon. Member to paragraph 1 of the Board's Circular 1413, of which I am sending him a copy, from which he will see that the Board's grants will be calculated on the assumption of a deduction of 15 per cent. from the aggregate total of the teachers' salaries otherwise payable.
§ Mr. HOPKINOn what principle are some teachers penalised and others let off altogether—the teachers in the private schools?
§ Sir D. MACLEANThe same principle as applies to other cuts in the Economy Bill.
§ Sir O. MACLEANThat is so.
§ 23. Mr. HOPKINasked the President of the Board of Education if he is aware that a number of teachers in Carmarthen-shire will shortly suffer considerable reductions in salary by being transferred from scale 3 to scale 2; and if he proposes to reduce the salaries of these teachers by 15 per cent. or at all?
§ Sir D. MACLEANUnder Lord Burn-ham's arbitral award of 8th December, 1927, relating, to Carmartbenshire, all teachers then paid on Scale 3 were to 1006 remain on that scale, and I am not aware that any teachers in the county will shortly suffer reduction by being transferred to Scale 2.
§ Mr. HOPKINIs the right hon. Gentleman not aware that the teachers in all industrial areas are to come down from Scale 3 to Scale 2 on 1st April of next year, and is it not a fact: that the teacher getting £432 will suffer a cut of £111, or 23½ per cent.?
§ Sir D. MACLEANThe answer is as I have given it. I am unaware of any such circumstance as my hon. Friend has mentioned.
§ Mr. COCKSOn a point of Order. Is it in order, Mr. Speaker, when you are seated and I rise to put a supplementary question, that hon. Members opposite should shout "sit down" and create disorder?
§ Mr. SPEAKERThe nature of some of the hon. Member's supplementary question did not encourage me to call upon him to ask any more.
§ 24. Major BRAITHWAITEasked the President of the Board of Education whether he will give an undertaking that when the financial condition of the country is again secure he will reconsider the case of the teachers' salaries, and that the present cuts are not to be regarded as permanent?
§ 25. Lieut.-Colonel GAULTasked the President of the Board of Education whether the 15 per cent. reduction in teachers' salaries is proposed by the Government as an emergency cut only and without prejudice to the rates of pension to which they are entitled under existing salaries; and if it is intended to reinstate them in their remuneration when the financial conditions of the country justify a return to the present standards of pay?
§ Sir D. MACLEANThe reduction in teachers' salaries is occasioned by the national emergency, and is not to be regarded as the view of the Government of what should be proper rates of remuneration of teachers under less abnormal conditions. The position should be reviewed on its merits when the financial position 1007 of the country allows. As regards superannuation, I would refer my hon. Friends to the written answer which I gave yesterday to the hon. Member for Middleton and Prestwich (Sir N. Stewart Sandeman).
Sir GEORGE HAMILTONWill the right hon. Gentleman consider departmentally, as announced by the Prime Minister yesterday, whether there are any great injustices in these cuts, and, if so, will he submit his opinion to the Cabinet?
§ Mr. MORGAN JONESIs the right hon. Gentleman aware that all Members of this House have been circularised by the Association of Local Education Authorities to the effect that they consider the imposition of the cut upon the superannuation or pensions for teachers to be a gross injustice?
§ Sir D. MACLEANWith regard to the question of the hon. Member for Ilford (Sir G. Hamilton), of course the undertaking of the Prime Minister will have the fullest and authoritative consideration of the department. With regard to the second question, I am aware of the expression of opinion which the circular mentioned contains.
§ Lieut.-Colonel GAULTDoes the right hon. Gentleman not think that it would have been more equitable to have taken the pre-crisis rates of salaries and wages as a datum line from which to deduct a uniform cut?
§ Mr. MATHERSIf the financial position of the country gets worse, will further cuts be made?
§ Mrs. MANNINGAm I to gather from the right hon. Gentleman's answer that the Government will take the initiative in restoring these salaries, just as they have taken the initiative in reducing them?
§ Sir D. MACLEANI think that any Government when in power can safely rely on the initiative being taken by the teachers' organisation.
§ Mr. COCKSMay I ask the Minister whether in the conversations which he has had on this subject with the Chancellor of the Exchequer, he will live up to his name of "Fighting Mac"?