DIPLOMATIC AND CONSULAR SERVICES.

HC Deb 25 February 1931 vol 248 cc2229-36

Motion made, and Question proposed, That a Supplementary sum, not exceeding £62,900, be granted to His Majesty, to defray the Charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March, 1931, for the Expenses in connection with His Majesty's Embassies, Missions, and Consular Establishments Abroad, and other Expenditure chargeable to the Consular Vote; Relief of Refugees from the Near East; certain special Grants, including a Grant-in-Aid; Sundry Services arising out of the War; and a Loan to the European Commission of the Danube.

Mr. GODFREY LOCKER-LAMPSON rose—

The UNDER-SECRETARY of STATE for FOREIGN AFFAIRS (Mr. Dalton)

Perhaps it would be more convenient for the Committee if I made a statement before the right hon. Gentleman speaks. This Supplementary Estimate for £62,900 falls under four main headings. The first, under the heading of "Diplomatic Service," is an additional sum of £4,000 for outfits. The right hon. Gentleman opposite, who preceded me in office, will appreciate the truth of what I am going to say, namely, that this particular Vote varies from year to year according to the number of losses by death and retirement, and the consequential transfer of Ambassadors, Ministers and other diplomatic officers. In the year with which we are now dealing, there has, unfortunately, been a large number of casualties of this kind. Similarly in connection with the General Consular Service, an additional sum of £10,000 is required for outfits, travelling and special services on account of exceptional transfers following retirement and death. In the case of the Consular Service it may be of interest to the Committee if I repeat what has already been sated in this House that two officers of the Consular Service have during this year been appointed heads of diplomatic missions, Mr. Scott Dickson at Bogota and Sir Andrew Ryan at Jedda. This has naturally meant consequential appointments and transfers.

Under the heading, "Losses in Russia," an additional sum of £8,900 is required. Similar charges have had to be met in previous years. In the years 1917–18 there was a certain confusion prevailing in Russia and roubles were purchased on behalf of the British authorities. I do not desire, unless I am pressed, to give particulars, but if I am pressed I will give them. Certain roubles were purchased and claims, based upon those transactions have been coming in for payment in subsequent years. This is a very unfortunate charge for which the Foreign Office was not in any way responsible. In this particular case a certain gentleman of German nationality makes a claim for £8,900, and we are satisfied that he is a perfectly bona-fide holder of a cheque paid for roubles. This transaction was made on the authority of Mr. Bruce Lockhart, who at that time was known as the British diplomatic agent in Moscow. Hon. Members will recollect that there was the Aronowitz case which came before the courts in 1927, when Mr. Justice McCardie expressed the view that it would be very wrong for the British Government to refuse payment of these claims which had been incurred in good faith. For that reason, we are asking the Committee to honour this latest claim, which we have investigated and believe to be perfectly bona fide.

Under the heading of "Appropriations-in-aid," owing to general trade depression, which has had many repercussions everywhere, our receipts from Consular fees and fines are down, especially in China. There is an estimated decline of £10,000 in Consular fees, fines, etc., connected with the General Service and £30,000 in connection with the Services in China, making a total of £40,000. That is directly traceable to trade depression. For that reason, the Appropriations-in-Aid will fall short by that amount.

Mr. G. LOCKER-LAMPSON

I rose, in the first instance, to get information from the hon. Member. He has now covered every item of expenditure about which I had intended to ask for information, and therefore I have nothing further to say.

Mr. CAMPBELL

I should like at the outset, Sir William, to congratulate you on your well-merited honour and upon taking the Chair for the first time in this House. There are one or two items connected with the Consular Service to which I desire to refer and particularly to the service in the Dutch East Indies. I take a special interest in this because I became British Proconsul in Java in 1901 and was there during the whole term of the War. In 1914 the Consular Service in these parts was handed over to the Foreign Office. Since 1844 the consulate had been run entirely by my own firm; and it is rather curious to note that to-day, when we are talking about Russia and slavery, that the reason for the appointment of a British Consul in the Dutch East Indies was because it was necessary that someone should give a certificate of origin as to whether the sugar shipped from the Dutch East Indies was free or slave grown. A consul was appointed for this particular purpose and he happened to be a man who was in the same firm as I myself to-day. In 1914 the consulate was taken over at our request by the Foreign Office and a Consul-General was sent out just prior to the War. As I left in 1920 I am anxious to know some particulars about the service, because the Dutch East Indies is a very important place, there is a large British community and great British interests. One never likes to be extravagant, but I consider than a man in the position of Consul-General in a place like the Dutch East Indies should have an adequate salary.

The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN (Sir William Jenkins)

It will be interesting to know to which item the hon. Member is referring.

Mr. CAMPBELL

I am referring to the extra £10,000.

The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN

I do not think that this Vote covers the subjects mentioned by the hon. Member.

Mr. CAMPBELL

I was only pointing out the reasons which justify this sum. This money is required because of the general trade depression, which has brought upon these officers a great deal of extra work while at the same time the lack of fees and fines is doubtless due to the lack of shipping; the lack of shipments of goods for which a British consular certificate is necessary. In former times there had been several hundreds of thousands of pounds of sugar and other products shipped to this country on which a British certificate of origin was necessary, but under present conditions these certificates are not necessary. I hope the Under-Secretary will tell us something about the services in the Dutch East Indies for which this money is required. Apparently we have recently appointed a commercial agent, whose fees will also come out of this £10,000. Is he getting a sufficient remuneration? He will have to keep up a position comparable with the heads of big banks and firms and with the French and German and other Consuls, and it is therefore advisable and necessary that he should get an adequate remuneration in order to keep up the prestige of this country.

I should also like to know to what services they are at present attached, whether it is to Bangkok or to the China Civil Service? The success of a diplomat and Consul depends on a knowledge of the language of the place to which he is appointed. If these Consuls come from Siam they have learned a language different altogether to the language they will need in the Dutch East Indies. Any success which I happen to have had in the Dutch East Indies was principally owing to the fact that as soon as I arrived there I set to work to learn the languages necessary, Dutch, Malay, and a bit of Chinese. I suggest that all officers to the Dutch East Indies, instead of going via Bangkok, should go via Holland, as they would then have an opportunity of picking up a bit of Dutch. My firm sends all their youngsters for a couple of years to Holland to learn the trade and the language at the same time. It is very useful to anyone in the Consular Service if he arrives at his destination with a knowledge of the language he is going to use.

The TEMPORARY - CHAIRMAN

I must call the hon. Member's attention to the fact that he is getting very far from the Vote. He must confine himself to the Vote before the Committee.

Mr. CAMPBELL

I hope that this money is being expended in the best interests of the old country and to the benefit of our Consular servants who are out there in a rotten bad climate, far from the old home.

Major G. DAVIES

I must say that my own Dutch is very rusty, and I do not speak Malay or a bit of Chinese; I confine myself to English. The Under-Secretary of State has asked us not to press him on the item under the heading "QQ," and following his alphabetical description, I will merely speak of the individual as "Mr. X." I want to know, it having been proved that Mr. X deposited these roubles, whether there is any additional loss to the Treasury on account of the difference in value at the time he deposited them and the value at the time we recognised the claim? Have we lost by depreciation in that matter? My other question refers to the heading "PP." Fees, Fines, connected with the Services in China. I want to know—it may be the question of an ignoramus—whether that is entirely a loss on estimated activities such as shipping or whether a depreciation in the value of silver has entered into that loss in any way?

Mr. PALMER

There is one question I want to put in regard to the item of outfits, travelling and special services. It refers to a number of transfers following deaths and retirements. May we know how many Consuls were affected in that exchange?

Mr. DALTON

I am anxious to keep myself in order, and I would be very glad if your Ruling permitted me to answer all the points raised by the hon. Member for Bromley (Mr. Campbell). As he said, he gave me notice of the questions which he intended to ask, but, possibly, in view of your Ruling it will be better if I answer him now briefly, and send him a rather fuller statement later on giving him the information which he desires. We do of course attach great importance to the work of the Consular Service in the Dutch East Indies, and I have in front of me a long column of figures relating to that matter, but I think I should be going rather far if I were to read these figures to the Committee, and perhaps the hon. Member will allow me to communicate them to him. With regard to the relation of the East Indies Consular Service to other services, it is still linked with the Siamese service.

I have taken note of the hon. Member's remarks on the subject of languages. I am not permitted to do more than take a note of it, but that matter shall he borne in mind and considered. It is evident, I think, that if we separate our services too much we encounter difficulties regarding promotion. I am sure that the hon. Member appreciates that fact. We must have a fairly large establishment; otherwise, promotion would often be very long delayed and would often be quite arbitrary. Of course, we keep in touch with other Departments such as the Department of Overseas Trade which is responsible for the Commercial Agent to whom the hon. Member referred. That Department is, as it were, the child of the Foreign Office and the Board of Trade but it very often leans rather more towards the mother's than the father's side. The hon. and gallant Member for Yeovil (Major G. Davies) asked me about the exchange problems involved in the Russian case and also in the case of the Appropriations-in-Aid for the China service. The Russian cheque was in sterling and consequently we have lost nothing through variations in the value of Russian currency since that time.

Major DAVIES

I forgot to ask the hon. Gentleman if this was an unexpected thing and if there are any other cases of the kind, floating in the air as it were. Does he know of any other such cases which are still outstanding?

9.0 p.m.

Mr. DALTON

We do not know of any such cases which are outstanding and we hope there are none but we cannot be completely certain because as I have said, when Mr. Bruce Lockhart was in charge in Moscow there was such looseness of financial control that we have never been able to get a proper account, but we hope we have now come to an end of these claims. With regard to China, I am informed that we collect these sums in dollars and of course, if the rate of exchange in dollars falls, then we lose. But I am advised that, broadly speaking, this falling off in the Appropriations-in-Aid is due not to exchange fluctuations but to trade depression of a general character. My hon. Friend the Member for Greenwich (Mr. Palmer) asked me about the number of consular transfers and I can give him some particulars under that head. This year, as I have said, we have had the transfers of two Consuls-General to be Heads of Missions in the Diplomatic Service. I hope that hon. Gentlemen in various parts of the Committee who are frequently urging us not to treat the Diplomatic Service and the Consular Service as closed and separate services, will appreciate and approve of the fact that the Government have made these two appointments in Colombia and the Hedjaz. That of course has meant a series of consequential changes and people have been moved up, not according to any mechanical order of seniority, but according to merit. Then we suffered the loss through death of an Inspector-General—(Mr. Murray)—and the retirement under the age limit of five Consuls-General. We have unfortunately also had the death of a Vice-Consul and another transfer from the Consular Office to the Commercial Diplomatic Service. All this has resulted in a much greater degree of movement this year than we usually have to provide for.

Question put, and agreed to.