§ 12. Mr. HOLFORD KNIGHTasked the Minister of Labour whether he has considered the resolution, a copy of which has been sent to him, instructing Labour representatives on public assistance committees to refuse to assess transitional and other cases below the scale agreed on by the Joint London Labour meetings; and whether such an instruction is in accordance with the regulations of the Ministry dealing with such matters?
§ Sir H. BETTERTONI have no knowledge of this matter beyond the reference to it in the Press. As regards the second part of the question the duties of public assistance committees in respect of transitional payments are laid down in the Order-in-Council which requires committees to deal with all applications according to the individual circumstances of each case.
§ Mr. KNIGHTMay I ask whether it is contemplated by the Order to which the right hon. Gentleman has referred that this interference by outside bodies should take place, and whether it is within his knowledge that similar interference is taking place in other parts of the country?
§ 13. Mr. LAWSONasked the Minister of Labour whether he is prepared to authorise the payment of expenses of applicants for transitional payments on their being required to attend before a meeting of a relief committee?
§ Sir H. BETTERTONNo, Sir. So far as I am aware, the need for such provision has not arisen.
§ Mr. LAWSONIf there is any such need will action be taken?
§ Sir H. BETTERTONIf the situation arises it will be considered.
§ 14. Mr. LAWSONasked the Minister of Labour whether the words invested savings mentioned in paragraph 4 of the circular of 10th November, 1931 (L.A. 3), include National Savings Certificates, Post Office savings, and money in cooperative societies; and whether it is necessary that such assets should be realised before the payments to a person on transition are determined?
§ Sir H. BETTERTONThe answer to the first part of the question is in the affirmative. As regards the second part I cannot add anything to the considerations brought to the notice of authorities in the circular itself.
§ Mr. LAWSONDoes that mean that the assets should be realised before payment is made?
§ Sir H. BETTERTONNo. If the hon. Gentleman will look at the circular he will see that it contains quite clearly the meaning of the expression.
§ Mr. LAWSONIs the right hon. Gentleman aware that the public assistance committees are in trouble because they do not know what the circular means?
§ Sir H. BETTERTONI have endeavoured to make, as clear as language can make it, what the meaning of that expression is. I cannot help it if they cannot understand what is really a very plain statement.
§ Mr. LAWSONIn view of the fact that public assistance committees, such as Sheffield and others, are finding very great difficulty—
§ Mr. SPEAKERThe hon. Member is now repeating the original question.
§ 16. Mr. GORDON MACDONALDasked the Minister of Labour if he will state the number of members of public assistance committees that have declined to administer the means test to unemployed persons on transitional payments?
§ Sir H. BETTERTONI have no information as to the action of individual members of public assistance committees, but I am happy to say that all committees are co-operating in the task of administering transitional payments.
§ 23. Captain FRASERasked the Minister of Labour if His Majesty's Government will take the necessary steps to make it obligatory on public assistance committees when dealing with transitional payments not to take into account disability pensions when assessing the incomes of ex-service men?
§ Sir H. BETTERTONI cannot issue any instructions which would conflict with the Order-in-Council. Under the Order, the public assistance authority must not make it a rule to disregard disability pensions, but in considering the needs of a pensioner, they must have regard to his disability, and it is entirely within their discretion to make an increase of award, within the limits of the full rate of transitional payments, on the ground of that disability, and the increase of need that results from it.
§ Captain FRASERCould the right hon. Gentleman answer the precise question that I asked him? I asked him, not to make regulations, but to legislate.
§ Sir H. BETTERTONI really cannot give the undertaking asked for. In my answer, I have endeavoured to explain quite clearly what the position of public assistance committees is, and I cannot give any undertaking to embark on legislation.
§ Mr. W. THORNEWill the same sympathetic consideration be given to disability compensation cases?
§ Sir H. BETTERTONThat question shows how difficult it is to treat these cases of disability in isolation. Compensation cases also might have a claim for consideration.
§ Mr. LANSBURYIn case of any action, will the right hon. Gentleman also consider the need pension of the wife of a man who has died in France or Flanders?
§ Sir H. BETTERTONThat again shows that there are other questions which will have to be considered. The matter must be considered as a whole, and it is difficult to regard one particular item in isolation from the others.
§ Mr. SPEAKERWe cannot go on with this question indefinitely.