CHANNEL ISLANDS (REPRE-SENTATION) MEASURE, 1931. (Hansard, 29 April 1931)

§ Lord HUGH CECIL
I beg to move, That, in accordance with the Church of England Assembly (Powers) Act, 1919, this House do direct that the Channel Islands (Representation) Measure, 1931, be presented to His Majesty for Royal Assent. 11.0 p.m.
I do not think it will be necessary to detain the House long in the consideration of this Resolution and the next Resolution which is on the Paper in my name, and, with the indulgence of the House, I wish to treat both together. The purpose of these Resolutions is to bring the Channel Islands within reach of the organisation of the Church Assembly and 1772 the Enabling Act, by which legislation on Church matters is greatly facilitated. The first Resolution relates to giving representation to the Channel Islands in the Church Assembly. That is quite a simple matter and relates only to the lay house because the clerical house is a part of the Convocation controlled by the rules of Convocation, and the Bishop of Winchester, as Bishop of the Diocese, is already a member of the Church Assembly. It relates, therefore, as I say, only to the laity, and the method adopted has been agreed upon, both by the authorities and persons interested in the Islands, and also by the Assembly here.
The other Resolution is more difficult. It deals with the application of Church legislation to the Islands. As the House will understand, the legislation has to be adapted to suit the condition in the Islands. Therefore, it cannot be simply applied, at any rate in some cases. Accordingly, it is necessary to have some power of modifying to suit the particular circumstances. In order to do that, you have to face the difficulty that the legislative authority for the Channel Islands is to some extent a matter of controversy. The States claim to have full autonomy, and on the other hand the Home Office, on behalf of the Crown, or on behalf of the Duchy of Normandy, which, I suppose, is the original title, claim also autonomy. Of course, it was not at all the desire of the Church to intervene in a controversy of that kind, which is a matter of centuries old. Therefore the matter was the subject of a good deal of negotiation, and in the end a settlement was arrived at by the Bishop of Winchester, who is in the fortunate position of being trusted both by the Crown and by the Islands, to make schemes and to adopt measures suitable for the Islands. When they are consented to in the Islands and by the Home Office and the Church Assembly, they will be applied. It is very simple, and both the authorities in the Islands and the Home Office and the Church Assembly have all agreed to this matter, and I hope the House will consent to pass the Resolutions.

§ Miss PICTON-TURBERVILL
I beg to second the Motion.

§ Mr. MANDER
It is always a matter of regret that these Measures from the Church Assembly are brought forward 1773 at this late hour, and I think there is a general wish among certain Members in all three parties in the House that when a matter of really substantial importance does come along, an approach shall be made to the Prime Minister to ask whether it is not possible, at any rate as an experiment, that such a Measure should be taken at the hour of 7.30. But I quite agree that the Measures now before us are not very controversial. At the same time, there are one or two questions that I should like to ask, and perhaps, as one who comes of Guernsey descent, I might be allowed to take a little interest in these islands.
I have always felt that it was a matter of great regret, when these Measures have come before the House, that they did not apply to the Channel Islands, and therefore I am delighted to find these Measures brought forward to-night to give the Channel Islands the same benefits which other parts of the country in the United Kingdom are now getting. One has to be very careful in dealing with the Channel Islands, because their system of government is of great antiquity. They are not, and never have been, so far as I know, under the control and subject to the management of the Parliament of this country. They have their own institutions, of which they are very proud, and they do not desire to give up any rights that they may possess. I should like, therefore, to ask whether the decisions that have been come to, both in the Church Assembly and in the Legislative Chambers of the Islands of Jersey and Guernsey, were unanimous or not, whether there is a strong minority in any of those Assemblies.
I should like to know also what is meant by Clause 5 of the Channel Islands (Church Legislation) Measure, where it says: Nothing in this Measure shall affect any procedure for applying Measures to the Islands, or either of them, other than the procedure hereby authorised. To what does that refer? And in paragraph (b) it says: The direct application to the Islands, or either of them, of Measures or part of Measures dealing exclusively with the formularies of the Church of England or the spiritual interests or privileges of those members. 1774 Why has that omission been made? What are the reasons behind it? There is another point. I think I am right in assuming that the definition given of who is a member of the Church is exactly the same as has been applied throughout the length and breadth of this country. I want an assurance on that point, and if the Noble Lord can answer the points that I have mentioned, I for one shall be satisfied and only too delighted to think that the Channel Islands will have the benefit of Measures passed through the Church Assembly.

§ Lord H. CECIL
I can quite easily answer the questions that are put. Of course, as my hon. Friend says, the Channel Islands are, in respect of their Government, a most interesting place. They are part of the original Duchy of Normandy, and they say that they conquered England and not England them, and therefore they are not in any sense subject to the Parliamentary institutions of England. About that there is a great deal of controversy, and the purpose of Clause 5 is to keep clear of that controversy, and to leave the Islands exactly as they stand. Therefore we say: Nothing in this Measure shall affect any procedure for applying measures to the Islands other than the procedure hereby authorised. We do not come to any decision as to whether there are other ways of providing them, but we provide an uncontroversial way which we hope will always be used. The second Clause excludes the reception of formularies, because they have always been excluded. They have always had Acts of Uniformity, and there has never been any controversy about it. So we leave them out. The purpose of the Clause is to avoid controversy and to leave it precisely as it stands, without affecting it one way or the other. There were most elaborate negotiations in framing the Measure, first with the States, then with the Dean of Guernsey and Jersey, and then with the Home Office, and in the end this settlement was arrived at. So far as I know, it was unanimous; I have never heard of any opposition. Complete unanimity would be too much to hope for in any Measure, but substantial agreement was come to, and there was no opposition so far as I have heard.