GAS UNDERTAKINGS ACTS 1920 AND 1929. (Hansard, 26 November 1930)

§ Mr. C. WILLIAMS
This is rather an important Measure, and I want to know what is the necessity for this change, and how it comes about. In a place like Heathfield, when you have a certain gentleman acting as receiver, although he may be a British subject, it is desirable to find out that he is a British subject. I want to be quite sure that this local authority will employ people of British origin. In Clause 5 there is a very complicated financial system under this particular Gas Order and various sums of money are mentioned.
In Clause 5 the amount is £7,500, and Clauses 7 and 8 lay down the way in which this sum is distributed and the rates of interest. It seems rather curious 1460 that three-fifths is going to receive 6 per cent., while in Clause 8 there is £3,600 on which the rate of interest may be 10 per cent., and then there is a curious item of £100 original preference capital, which is to receive £7, or at the rate of 7 per cent. How does that one item come to stand out in that way? It is stated that additional capital also may receive 7 per cent. Again, Sub-section (3), and various other sub-sections of Clause 13, deal with the fittings of this company. I think that, in these times of industrial distress, when Bills of this kind are brought in, the House should see that under them British material and nothing else is used on the whole. Have the Government made any effort to see that British material is being use in this case?
Clause 16 deals with anti-fluctuators. I am not quite sure how these are applied to gas; it may be a useful method, but I particularly want to be quite sure—and, if the Minister cannot give me an answer now, perhaps he will give me an assurance that I shall have it at the earliest possible moment—that these instruments are of British manufacture. If any are coming in from abroad, that is a matter that would have to be raised on another occasion. To-day there was an interesting question in connection with gas works. It was not answered verbally, but it suggested that, for the assistance of aerial navigation, gas works in towns should have the name of the town painted in large white letters on the tops of their gasometers. In these days it is essential that in progressive places like Heathfield and Walden this modern method of advertising should be used, and I would like the Minister's assurance that he will encourage and help this in every way that he can. [Interruption.] It might be useful to work both by day and by night, but I doubt whether I should be in order on that point. The only value of having these Orders brought before the House is that we may get some knowledge of what local authorities are doing in the spending of public or semipublic money on most useful works.

§ The PARLIAMENTARY SECRETARY to the BOARD of TRADE (Mr. W. R. Smith)
I am sure the House will greatly appreciate the interest of the hon. Member in important matters such as these 1461 Orders. The purpose of this Order is the transfer of certain powers from one company to another, and the conferring of additional powers whereby the supply of gas to the inhabitants of this district may be more effective and efficient than previously.
With regard to the hon. Member's questions relating to the Order, I am sure he will understand that the Statutes under which these Orders are made compel the Department which I represent here to give the most detailed information in regard to the various headings that are essential under the provisions of the Act, and, as the hon. Member has quoted the Clauses, I am sure he will be able to understand, by reading these paragraphs, that this is done in order to protect the public and to give the fullest information in regard to the different spheres of activity in which the company is engaged. With regard to the name of the hon. Gentleman to whom the hon. Member referred, I can only assume that, as he is acting in this capacity, he is a British subject. In regard to the other matters, I think he may rest assured that this draft Order is framed upon lines that will give the public the fullest possible protection.

§ Mr. SMITHERS
In all seriousness, and with the same object as my hon. Friend the Member for Watford (Sir D. Herbert) had in the question which he has just raised, namely, that of maintaining the privileges of the House, I desire to point out that when five or six Gas Orders are put down in one evening, it is our duty to ask questions about them and not to let them go through mechanically. I wish to know if there is any liability on the Government in connection with these Orders, and if any increase in public expenditure is involved. I also wish to know if there is any change in the share holdings of the companies concerned and if the shareholders have been consulted. Further, I desire to know if these Orders go through the hands of the Treasury officers before they are finally approved.

§ Mr. C. WILLIAMS
I noticed that the hon. Gentleman, when he spoke previously, carefully avoided answering my question as to whether the material used was British material. That is a matter which some of us treat very seriously and I wish to know if, in this case, he has ensured that British material is to be used or if he has made any attempt to do so. The Government can do a good deal in these matters. If the hon. Gentleman has not done so, will he give an assurance that in future the Government will make every possible effort on these occasions to see that British material is used to the fullest possible extent?

§ Mr. W. R. SMITH
Although it is true that it is necessary for the House to pass these Orders in order to enable these companies to carry out their additional powers, yet they are very largely private companies and bodies over which the Government have no direct jurisdiction, but in so far as it is possible to facilitate the use of British materials in any constructional works in which these companies may be engaged, I am sure we shall be only too pleased to do whatever is possible in that direction. 1463 In fact that policy is followed out as far as possible in these great constructional works. So far as the other questions are concerned, I do not think that any public money is involved. They are gas companies of the usual character, and it means that in this case, as in most others, they are seeking additional powers either to increase their capital or to extend their spheres of operations or to merge one company with another and the law in that respect lays down that it can only be done by an Order of this House. The procedure is by means of an inquiry which undoubtedly will be publicly advertised, and therefore any shareholder who feels himself aggrieved by any action the company might be deemed to be undertaking would be adequately considered in the sense that he would receive notice of the inquiry, and he would have an opportunity of presenting any views to the persons conducting the inquiry. Any representations that may be made in that respect would have serious consideration, and, if they mitigate against the Order being granted by this House, undoubtedly representations would be made to modify any difficulty that might arise. I can 1464 assure the hon. Member that in these inquiries it does frequently happen that certain interests make representations under certain heads and if the person conducting the inquiry thinks that the objections are substantial he makes representations and usually, in the end, the objections are withdrawn and mutual understanding is arrived at before the Order is presented to this House. That is exactly what has taken place in this instance.

§ Mr. SMITHERS
What about the Treasury?

§ Mr. SMITH
The Treasury have nothing whatever to do with these Orders.