HC Deb 02 November 1930 vol 134 cc176-9
25. Mr. MOSLEY

asked the Secretary of State for War who supplied the troops breaking out of barracks to perform recent and admitted cases of reprisals in Ireland with lists of the leading Sinn Feiners which enabled them to discriminate between houses of Sinn Feiners and those of innocent people; and whether it is the practice of the military intelligence service in Ireland to circulate its secret information to the rank and file of the forces stationed in that country?

Mr. CHURCHILL

With regard to the first part of the hon. Member's question, the identity of many leading rebels is common knowledge in most Irish towns, and is in many cases blatantly advertised by the individuals themselves. The answer to the second part is in the negative.

26. Lieut.-Commander KENWORTHY

asked the Secretary of State for War what method is adopted at military dep6ts and barracks in Ireland for checking the issue of petrol, hand grenades, ammunition, and other Government stores; whether soldiers are able to obtain such articles for reprisals on Irish towns, as in the case of the recent raids on Bandon and Mallow, among others; whether soldiers are allowed to use motor lorries without permission for entering Irish towns at night; and what steps are being taken to prevent the use of Government vehicles and stores for reprisals in the future?

Mr. CHURCHILL

I am informed that most careful arrangements have been made for safeguarding petrol, ammunition and hand grenades, and for checking issue, and also to have them ready for instant use when required for the support of the police. Except on escort duty, soldiers are not allowed to use the lorries. There is only one case known, at Mallow, in which motor vehicles were taken without permission, and disciplinary action was taken in this case.

Lieut.-Commander KENWORTHY

Will the right hon. Gentleman state how the troops at Bandon and elsewhere managed to get petrol if it is carefully checked, and what is done to see that the petrol and other stores are not taken in moments of excitement?

Mr. CHURCHILL

With regard to the second part of the question, I have nothing to add to what I have already said. As to the first part, I understand that inquiries are still proceeding.

Lieut. - Commander KENWORTHY

With regard to Mallow, what disciplinary action has been taken by the Government with regard to the soldiers who took Government lorries without permission for a joy ride at night—

Mr. STANTON

Shut up!

Mr. J. JONES

Golliwog!

Mr. CHURCHILL

I am endeavouring to give a serious answer to a question put in rather an offensive form. As far as I know, the inquiries which have taken place in Ireland by the Command has led to a decision to try several soldiers and non-commissioned officers by court-martial, and until those trials are completed it is not possible for me to make any further statement.

Mr. T. P. O'CONNOR

(by Private Notice) asked the Chief Secretary for Ireland whether there has been a renewal in the last two days of the policy of reprisals, Littleton, Thurles, Tralee, Bally-bunion, and Ballyduff; and whether he is now prepared to give a definite assurance that the Government will take immediate and adequate steps to break down this policy of frightfulness which is aggravating the already deplorable conditions in Ireland?

The CHIEF SECRETARY for IRELAND (Lieut. - Colonel Sir Hamar Greenwood)

I only received notice of this question at noon, and have been quite unable to get reports from the five different places mentioned by the hon. Member. I can assure the hon. Member that there is no Government policy of reprisals. What are called reprisals are frequently legitimate acts of self-protection by police and soldiers in searching houses, shops, and other premises for criminals, ammunition, and explosives. The five places mentioned in the hon. Member's question are towns in Tipperary and Kerry; there have been four policemen murdered and ten wounded with the last few days, and a thorough search for the assassins is proceeding in these counties.

Mr. DEVLIN

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that the "Times" newspaper has made a definite charge against the Government that they are the originators of this policy of reprisals, and if that is a false statement is he prepared to prosecute the "Times"?

Sir H. GREENWOOD

I am not aware of the statement myself; but in law a misstatement is not necessarily a ground for action. Anybody can accuse the Cabinet of any crime and be free from legal action.

Mr. DEVLIN

Does the right hon. Gentleman seriously assert that the making of a misstatement in a newspaper is not an offence, while he himself is prosecuting the "Freeman's Journal" in Ireland for this offence?

Lord R. CECIL

Is it not a fact that these statements, which have been made repeatedly by the newspapers and in public; have not yet been denied by the Government?

Sir H. GREENWOOD

I have denied them at different times myself, and I deny them now.

Mr. DEVLIN

I press for an answer to my question. If it is an offence for which Irish newspapers are brought before courts-martial in Ireland to make statements which are not true, and if this statement be untrue, why is "The Times" not prosecuted, and other newspapers in this country ns well as Irish newspapers?

Mr. MACQUISTEN

Is it not the fact that if a newspaper in this country were prosecuted for making an untrue statement it could plead the custom of the trade and get off?

Lieut.-Commander KENWORTHY

If there is no policy of reprisals, has the attention of the right hon. Gentleman been drawn to the speech of the Prime Minister at Carnarvon and of the Secretary of State for War at Dundee condoning excesses committed by troops and police in Ireland?

Mr. STANTON

What would you do if you were an Irish policeman doing your duty? I would if I were one of them.

Mr. J. JONES

Why do you not be one of them?

Mr. STANTON

Why do not you?

Mr. SPEAKER

I must ask the hon. Member not to interrupt the proceedings.

Mr. STANTON

I am sorry, but may I call your attention to the other hon. Member? I suppose I have some rights as this House as well as the Bolshies.

Mr. JONES

You ought to be put into Madame Tussaud's.

Mr. STANTON

All right, Sitting Bull.

At the end of Questions

Mr. O'CONNOR

I beg to ask leave to move the Adjournment of the House on a definite matter of urgent public importance, namely, the continuance of the burning of creameries, the firing of towns, and the destruction of life by the forces of the Crown, and, in view of the aggravation of the appalling conditions in Ireland which these outrages have created, the immediate necessity for such strong and vigorous action on the part of the Government as will put an end to this disastrous policy of frightfulness.

Mr. SPEAKER

I am afraid that I can not accept the hon. Member's Motion. With regard to the continuance of the burning of creameries, there has been no evidence whatever since the last Debate. With regard to the firing of towns, the only evidence is founded on newspaper reports. The hon. Members asked questions to-day and the Chief Secretary for Ireland said that he was not in a position either to accept or deny the reports. I think, therefore, the hon. Member ought to wait until he receives some information. The same remark applies to the destruction of life by the forces of the Crown. I do not think there has been any further evidence to-day, but, if the hon. Member to-morrow has any evidence, or if the Department has any information upon any of these matters, I shall be quite prepared to consider a further proposal.

Mr. O'CONNOR

Thank you. I shall move the question to-morrow, in case the conditions which you lay down are fulfilled.

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