§ 34. Major Sir ARCHIBALD SINCLAIRasked the Secretary of Sate for Scotland whether he is satisfied with the progress being made in the improvement of housing in the rural districts of Scotland under the Housing (Rural Workers) Act, 1926, in those counties and county districts in which the Act is being worked; whether he has yet decided what steps to take to deal with the housing situation in those districts in which the local authorities are unwilling or unable to put the Act into operation; and whether proposals for improving Scottish rural housing will be included in the Housing Bill which is about to be introduced?
§ The UNDER-SECRETARY of STATE for SCOTLAND (Mr. Johnston)Without in any way disparaging the good work done by several county councils, I regret to say that as a whole I am not satisfied with the progress made under the Act referred to. As regards the second part of the question, in view of the fact that district committees as housing authorities wilt, in terms of the Local Government (Scotland) Act, 1929, cease to exist as from 15th May next, I do not propose to bring further pressure to bear on those of them that are not already operating the Housing (Rural Workers) Act, but the attention of the new county councils will, immediately after that date, be directed. to the provisions of the latter Act. As regards the last part of the question. I would ask the hon. and gallant Member to await the introduction of the Bill.
§ Sir A. SINCLAIRSeeing that the hon. Gentleman is not satisfied with the progress that is being made even in those counties that are working,.he Act, that he admits that there arc a number of counties in which the Act is not being worked at all, and that it comes to an end next year, cannot, he give an assurance that this vital question will be dealt with in the new Bill?
§ Mr. JOHNSTONI have already assured the hon. and gallant Gentleman that immediately after 15th May, when the new authorities are constituted, I propose to draw the attention of such authorities as are not operating the Act to its provisions.
§ Sir A. SINCLAIREven those that are operating the Act are not doing it to the satisfaction of the hon. Gentleman, or of the people of Scotland. Cannot he give us an assurance that some better legislation will be introduced to deal with the rural housing situation under the new Bill?
§ Mr. JOHNSTONThe hon. and gallant Gentleman had better await the introduction of the Bill.
§ Major ELLIOTIs it not the case that there is more work being done under the Act in Scotland than in the whole of England with its very much larger area?
§ Mr. JOHNSTONQuestions of comparison of that kind are very difficult to answer on the spur of the moment.
§ Major McKENZIE WOODMay we take it that the Government propose to introduce a Bill to deal with rural housing during their term of office?
§ 43. Mr. HARDIEasked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he can say what has been the total expenditure incurred since 1918 by local authorities in acquiring land for housing schemes under the Housing Acts; what is the total acreage acquired; what proportion of that expenditure and acreage had reference to compulsory acquisition decided at arbitration; and, in respect of such compulsory acquisition, what was the total amount of legal costs falling upon the public funds, in addition to the actual cost of the land?
§ Mr. JOHNSTONI regret that the information desired is not available.
§ Mr. HARDIEIs there any chance of getting a grip on what the question asks for in the course of, say, three months?
§ Mr. JOHNSTONWe are advised that a special return would be required from all local authorities on the subject, and it is doubtful whether the expenses of obtaining and tabulating it would be justified by the results.
§ Mr. HARDIEIs it not going to be the business of the Department to obtain reports so that the Government may understand the extent to which they will have to give financial assistance?
§ Mr. JOHNSTONIt is very doubtful whether the results of such an inquiry would justify the expense.
§ Mr. HARDIEIs it not the intention of the Government to make sure that, wherever they are spending money, they have to know every detail?
§ Mr. JOHNSTONThe Housing Acts do not provide that we ought to be informed of every detail. The amounts of the subsidy are fixed by the House.
Mr. MACLEANIs it not the case that the returns will be made by the local authorities and that, therefore, very little expense will be thrown upon the Government Department itself?
§ Mr. JOHNSTONNo, that is the point. We do not get the return now, and we should require to ask for a special return of all those figures.
§ Mr. HARDIEasked the Secretary of State for Scotland the total sum paid to date from public funds as subsidies on houses under the Housing Acts; and if he can give an estimate of the total deficit on such houses that has been borne by the local authorities out of the rates apart from State grants?
§ Mr. JOHNSTONAs at the 21st, instant, the total amount paid in Scotland in housing Exchequer subsidies was £10,880,258. I regret that the information desired in the latter part of the question is not available.
§ Mr. HARDIEIs it not going to be the duty of the Government to know all that takes place? Surely the Government could put pressure on the local authorities to make returns giving details of where the expenditure has taken place?
§ Mr. JOHNSTONWhether the Housing Acts ought to be altered would be a matter for discussion in the House. As the law at present stands, we are not called upon to ask for the provision of all details from local authorities in the matter of how they spend their share of the housing money.
§ Major ELLIOTWill the hon. Gentleman see that the time of the local authorities which might usefully be used in getting on with housing is not taken up by filling up forms?
§ 68. Mr. McKINLAYasked the Secretary of State for Scotland the annual contribution made during 1929–30 or latest year in respect of housing schemes in Scotland under the Housing Acts of 1919, 1923, 1924, and 1926, and the number of houses in each case in respect of which subsidy was paid, including houses reconditioned under the last Act?
§ Mr. JOHNSTONThe information desired will not be available for the financial year 1929–30 until after the end of the current month, but I am sending my hon. Friend a statement giving particulars for the financial year 1928–29.
§ 74. Major ELLIOTasked the Secretary of State for Scotland the number of houses at present under construction by local authorities with State assistance, and the numbers under construction at the corresponding date last year?
§ Mr. JOHNSTONAs at the 28th February, the latest date for which particulars are available, the number of houses under construction by local authorities with State assistance in Scotland was 7,269. The number under construction at the corresponding date last year was 11,838. The figures, however, began to decrease, as the hon. and gallant Member is aware, in September, 1928, and the rate of decrease between that date and June, 1929, is as great as since the present Government took office. It must also be remembered that last year the then Government were allowing about 60 per cent. of two-roomed houses, whereas the proportion now permitted unless in exceptional cases has been reduced to 25 per cent.
§ Major ELLIOTDoes not the hon. Member consider that it is a very grave dereliction of duty on the part of his Government to do nothing to implement its election pledges about accelerating the rate of house building and, further, does he not think that by standing on a petty point about two-roomed houses—
§ Mr. SPEAKERThe hon. and gallant Member seems to be asking for the Minister's opinion.
§ Major ELLIOTOn the point of the size of the houses. it is of very great importance to local administration in Scotland to know the opinion of the hon. Member, because the opinion of the hon. 264 Member and his right hon. Friend prevents certain houses being built.
§ Mr. SPEAKERThe hon. and gallant Member must put down a question to ascertain the policy of the Government with reference to these matters.
Earl WINTERTONWhat does the hon. Member propose to do to accelerate the programme of building at present going on in Scotland? Does he not think that it is more necessary to build houses than merely to attack his predecessors in office?
§ Mr. JOHNSTONIt has been frequently announced in this House that the Government propose to introduce a Bill for that purpose, and I would advise the Noble Lord to await that Bill.
§ Mr. JOHNSTONAt an early date.
§ 75. Major ELLIOTasked the Secretary of State for Scotland the number of building trade workers at. present employed on local authority housing schemes; and the number so employed at the corresponding date last year?
§ Mr. JOHNSTONAs at the 28th February, the latest date for which particulars are available, the number of building trade workers employed on local authorities' housing schemes in Scotland was 4,723. As at the corresponding date last year the number was 4,838.
§ Major ELLIOTDoes not the hon. Member think that the necessity of bringing in housing legislation at an early date is greatly reinforced by the figures he has read to the House?
§ Mr. JOHNSTONThere is a difference of 100 building trade workers. To the extent of that 100, certainly I agree.
Mr. BOOTH BYDoes the hon. Member mean by that answer that be is quite satisfied with the rate of progress? Does he not look for acceleration and increase in the houses built?
§ Mr. JOHNSTONThe fact that the Government are not satisfied is evident from the fact that they are bringing in a Bill.
§ Sir K. WOODIt has taken them nine months.
§ 71. Mr. JAMES WELSH (Paisley)asked the Secretary of State for Scotland how many members of his staff are engaged upon work in connection with local authorities' housing schemes; and what has been the amount of Departmental expenditure in salaries, etc., upon such work during the past 12 months?
§ Mr. JOHNSTONA total of 38 officers of the Department of Health for Scotland are engaged whole-time on work under the Housing Acts. The expenditure on salaries during the present financial year is approximately £14,300.
§ Mr. HARDIEDo not the duties of these officers include what I have asked in previous questions to-day, the obtaining of information as to what has taken place?
§ Mr. JOHNSTONNo, Sir. They do not at all involve meticulous examination of the expenditure of local authorities.