HC Deb 27 June 1930 vol 240 cc1574-6

Considered in Committee under Standing Order No. 71A.

[Mr. DUNNICO in the Chair.]

Motion made, and Question proposed, That, for the purpose of any Act of the present Session relating to Local Loans, it is expedient to authorise the remission of— (1) the principal of the several loans by the Public Works Loan Commissioners specified in the following table to the extent specified in the last column of that table, and of the arrears of interest due to the Public Works Loan Commissioners in respect of those loans:

Memorandum attached to the Bill, and in the various Tables which follow it, and, in view of the full way in which everything is there set out, I do not think it is necessary for me to make any further explanation.

Mr. C. WILLIAMS

I desire to ask the Minister one or two questions on this Resolution. I put to him just now two very simple questions, but he did not answer them, and I should like now to ask him how it is that we have three or four Scottish harbours which are getting tremendous remissions of debt, while it is almost impossible for any English harbour to get such remissions. It is no use saying that this is done simply in the ordinary course of public business because these debts cannot be collected. I know that many of our West Country harbours are just as badly off, and I think we are entitled to know why it is that the harbours in this list are getting these remissions. Is it, possibly, that the Secretary of State for Scotland takes a tour round Scotland and says that this harbour and the other harbour must have a remission? I ask because I feed sure that the Secretary of State will be desirous of helping me in this matter. I am not attacking him, but we do want an explanation. I ask him partly because I have already tried and failed to get an explanation, and partly because a particular harbour in which I am definitely and clearly interested has been extraordinarily badly treated in this respect, while many other harbours in the West Country, of which I have considerable knowledge, are in a very difficult position. We get no other chance of approaching the Treasury in a friendly way, as I am doing at this moment, and asking how it is possible so to approach this body that we may get definite relief as well. If these questions can be answered for me, either by the Financial Secretary or by the Secretary of State for Scotland, I shall not oppose the Resolution.

Mr. PETHICK-LAWRENCE

I do not think that it rests with me to suggest to the hon. Member how he can get money remitted by the Treasury. I can only say that, if he wants any particular place to have some remission which seems to him to be in the public interest, he must make application. I cannot go beyond that. If I knew some royal road, it obviously would not be my duty to tell him what it was, but I do not know of any royal road, and, therefore, although from his own point of view I wish him well, from the point of view of the Treasury and of the public purse I am bound to with that he will not succeed in getting a remission.

Mr. WILLIAMS

Perhaps the royal road will be declared to me by the Secretary of State for Scotland, seeing that these are all Scottish harbours, and, accordingly, I would put the question to the right hon. Gentleman and ask him how it happens that all these Scottish harbours and no English harbours are included. If he will give me some idea as to how it is that they all happen to concern his Department, I will then endeavour to let him have the Resolution. I feel sure that he can give me an answer.

Mr. W. ADAMSON

I assure the hon. Member that these remissions are not brought about by the Secretary of State for Scotland, but are given on the definite recommendation of the Treasury. The remissions have all been very carefully considered, and the Financial Secretary to the Treasury has already indicated that the Public Works Loan Board are satisfied that these debts are not likely to be recovered before they are scheduled for remission. As my hon. Friend has already pointed out, a fairly long explanation is given, in the Financial Statement attached to the Bill, of the reasons why the Public Works Loan Board find it necessary to remit the debt in each of these cases. I can assure the hon. Member that not a single one of these remissions has been made without the most careful consideration and without very good reasons. I could give the reasons if it were necessary to elaborate them, but I do not think it is, and I am sure the hon. Member would not wish me to do so. I hope, because some harbour on the west coast of England has not got the remission of debt to which the hon. Member thinks it is entitled, he will not make that a reason for preventing us from getting this Resolution.

Mr. WILLIAMS

I am afraid the reply of the Financial Representative of the Treasury is of such a nature that, between now and the Committee stage of the Bill, I shall have to go through these things with very great care, and may have to omit the whole of them.

Question put, and agreed to.

Resolution to be reported upon Monday next.