TRADE BOARDS ACTS. (Hansard, 18 June 1930)

§ Mr. MANDER
I desire to call attention to a matter in regard to the administration of the Trade Boards Act and to ask the Government how it is that with all the powers that they have at their disposal they have failed to carry 544 out the pledges they have given on this question. The Trade Boards Act is one of those excellent Measures of social reform carried out by the Liberal party before the War, and wherever they are in operation they are working to the great satisfaction of both employers and employed. They cover 40 trades and 1,300,000 workers. During the past year, while the Government have been in office, not a single person has been added to the list of people brought under these trade boards. This is no question of legislation. The Government cannot say that they are blocked by an unsympathetic House. It is purely a matter for administrative action on their part. They can take the initiative and bring these boards into existence if they will, and I want to know how it is that they have not the will to do so.

§ Major COLFOX
I beg to call attention to the fact that there are not 40 Members present.

§ Mr. SPEAKER
There was a Division only a few minutes ago, when there was a quorum present.

§ Mr. MANDER
The trade union manifesto of 6th May, 1929, said the Labour party gave a pledge to improve the Trade Boards Act, but "Labour and the Nation" says, on page 19: The Trade Boards Act, under which legally enforceable minimum hours are fixed for more than 1,000,000 workers, must be extended to include within its scope classes of workers who are at present defenceless, and the work of inspection …. must be enlarged. Yet in spite of those definite pledges nothing has been done for those who are alluded to in "Labour and the Nation" as being defenceless. It is clear that there must be very large numbers of people who ought to be brought within those boards. During the past 10 years there have been 16 different trades investigated from time to time as to their suitability for boards. For some reason or other, boards have not been set up, but I am sure the Government know that in a number of instances a very good case exists for setting up boards. I allude only to some of the more important. There is the manufacture of aluminium hollow-ware; there are the catering trades (where, I admit, action is being taken by the Government, but that is the only case where they are attempting to do anything), the drapery trade; fish, poultry, and game distribution; fruit and vegetables distribution; grocery and provisions; hairdressing; jute, flax and hemp finishing, and meat distribution.
In 1924, when the last Labour Government was in power, it appointed a Committee to inquire into the question of trade boards in the distributive trades. A report was presented, and during the time of the late Government no action was taken, no doubt because they were not very sympathetic with the movement. But surely, now that this Government have been in office for a year, some explanation is required as to why they have not acted on the recommendations of their own Committee appointed in the year 1924.
In the case of the grocery trade, the National Union of Shop Assistants is definitely favourable, and I want to know what is holding up action there. In the 546 case of many public houses, it will be found that far too long hours are worked and that action is necessary there. Possibly the Minister will tell us if this is covered by the catering trades. I suggest that, in the case of two trades in my constituency, there is a case for setting up and extending trade boards.

§ Mr. GREENE
I beg to draw your attention, Mr. Speaker, to the fact that there are not 40 Members present.

§ Mr. SPEAKER
I have already pointed out that we had a Division only 20 minutes ago. There was a quorum then, and it is too soon to have a count.

§ Mr. MANDER
I can understand that the Conservative party are entirely unsympathetic to the extension of trade boards, but that will not prevent me from pressing the matter forward in the interests of the hundreds of thousands of people affected by these boards, in spite of the attempts to prevent discussion. The two industries in my constituency where I suggest that trade boards should be set up are the metal drop forging industry and the manufacture of stamped or pressed metal wares. I should like to ask who is holding up action in this matter. Is it the employers? The employers generally are unsympathetic at the beginning, but when the boards are in operation they are glad to have them working in their own interests and in the interests of the trade as a whole. Are the trades unions holding up action? Some trades unions are not altogether sympathetic; others are. But I am sure that the Minister would agree that although the trade unions have done splendid work, it is important that the Government should act in the interests of the community as a whole and not as representing employers' associations or trades unions. I urge the Minister to hold out some hope that action is going to be taken, not only in the catering trade, but in large numbers of others that are ripe for treatment. If they do not, when the time comes for the Government to go to the country, and they are not able to show a better record than they can at present, in spite of their pledges and opportunities, they will be very hardly judged on this question.

§ The PARLIAMENTARY SECRETARY to the MINISTRY of LABOUR (Mr. Lawson)
In view of the hon. Member's 547 commendable interest in this matter and of the importance of the subject, one regrets that it should be discussed so late at night. One must be rather struck with the wonderful work the Trade Boards have accomplished in the past few years. Those who have a vision of the old sweated conditions and have come into contact with the present Trade Boards have had an exhilarating experience in view of the great work they have accomplished. The hon. Gentleman asks why we do not take steps for the appointment of more trade boards. The hon. Gentleman and the House must understand that before we can take action in these industries, there must be representations made by responsible people. Where that is done the Ministry gives serious consideration to the representations. In 1924 the Labour Government took steps to make an investigation into the conditions prevailing in the catering trade, and one must wonder sometimes what are the conditions in which the people in that trade work. There was an investigation at that time which covered about 100,000 workers on the non-licensed side of the trade. In the non-licensed and licensed trade there are no fewer than 400,000 workers, that is, one-third of the whole of the workers now under trade boards. That investigation over the non-licensed side was completed in 1925. From that time nothing whatever was done. Immediately we came into office the Minister began to set investigations on foot at the request of the Trade Union Congress. Those investigations have now been completed over the whole of this great field. That is no small matter. [Interruption.] I refer to the 400,000 in the licensed and unlicensed trade. Great masses of those people are unorganised, and that has added to the difficulties of finding out what wages are paid and the conditions under which they work, because, naturally, the workers themselves are often loth to give the necessary information. Part of this report is now in the printer's 548 hands and will be published before the House rises. The results of the whole of the report are now under examination. A deputation representing the employers was seen on 12th May. The employers wished to submit information, and a decision upon this matter was delayed for a short time on this account, but it is hoped by the Minister that she will be able to make an announcement at an early date. I think the House generally will agree that in view of the ramifications of this industry that is not a bad contribution towards this trade board work. If the work had been carried on where it was left by the Ministry of Labour in 1924, it is very probable that these people would now be working under trade board conditions.
The hon. Member raised another matter concerning the distributive trades. Somehing done about that in 1924. When he comes into contact with this trade boards question, he will not be quite so sure about things. Although the spirit that prevails is a good one, there are sometimes differences of opinion amongst employers and amongst workers regarding trade boards. I am glad to pay my tribute to the great work which trade boards have accomplished, and yet it is a fact that, in this workaday world, there are amongst organised workers in certain industries two points of view regarding trade boards, which does not make for the early setting up of trade boards in those industries. I will repeat what I have said. If there is representative and responsible opinion in favour of an investigation to set before the Department it receives sympathetic consideration, but naturally the representations must come from responsible people. That is all I can say at the moment, although I am sorry that both the hon. Member and I have had such a short time in which to discuss this most important subject.