§ Dr. ADDISONI beg to move, in page 76, line 39, to leave out from the word "who," to the end of line 2 in page 77, and to insert instead thereof the words:
at the date of the election own or occupy land on which a drainage rate has been levied in the year immediately preceding:Provided that a person shall not be entitled to be an elector by reason of his occupation of any land if at the date of the election any amount demanded in respect of any drainage rate levied on that land has remained unpaid for more than a month, and a person shall not be entitled to be an elector by reason of his ownership of any land if at the date of the election any amount demanded in respect of any owner's drainage rate levied on that land has remained unpaid for more than one month.
§ Sir J. LAMBEvidently this is a manuscript Amendment, and I do not know what the Amendment really means.
§ Dr. ADDISONI understand that this is the Amendment which is consequential upon the alteration of Clause 26 of the Bill, and which, according to the existing practice, should be reproduced here.
§ Sir W. WAYLANDOn a point of Order. I understood that my Amendment—in page 78, line 6, after the word 205 "owner," to insert the words "either absolutely or for life"—would be accepted by the Minister.
Mr. DEPUTY-SPEAKER (Mr. Robert Young)We have not yet come to that Amendment. I have three manuscript Amendments to dispose of.
§ Mr. DIXEYMay I ask the right hon. Gentleman why an important Amendment like the present Amendment is handed in at this stage? Hon. Members on this side of the House do not understand the explanation at all. May we have a detailed explanation?
§ Dr. ADDISONI am sorry that I have to move this manuscript Amendment. The necessity was only finally confirmed this afternoon. I do assure hon. Members that it is not an alteration of the law, but is simply in order to bring the Bill as now amended into conformity with existing practice. I am very sorry these Amendments were not put in before. I did not know of them myself until this afternoon.
§ Lieut.-Colonel HENEAGEI do not know whether the Minister realises that here for the first time we have what seems to be a change rather in principle. If you apply this to the Parliamentary electorate then anybody who has not paid his taxes is not allowed to elect a Member of Parliament, or anyone who has not paid his rates is not allowed to elect local government representatives. I think we must have an explanation from the Minister as to whether this is not a new principle, that anyone who has not paid drainage rates cannot elect to the drainage body. Personally, having in mind the extremely difficult situation in Lincolnshire, I think there will be considerable hardship caused if this is brought in and it will be a regular weapon to intimidate the electorate on behalf of the Minister or any policy that he wants and that they disagree with.
§ Dr. ADDISONThe hon. and gallant Member is under a misapprehension. All we are seeking to do is to see that these elections are based on the existing law.
§ Mr. DIXEYAs far as I can understand the Minister, you might just as well argue that if a man has not paid his rates and taxes he shall not be entitled to vote at Parliamentary elections. That 206 is a principle with which hon. Members opposite would not agree. This does, in fact, institute a new principle entirety in the voting of this country.
§ Dr. ADDISONIf the hon. Member had had to administer the law he would know that those who pay special drainage rates vote according to the amount for which they are assessed. I am not altering the law but only requiring that that provision shall be continued in this Bill.
§ Mr. DIXEYI want to have this point made clear. The right hon. Gentleman's excuse is that he is altering this method of control. If that is so why does he not sweep aside a voting power which is entirely wrong in these democratic days. The payment of rates and taxes should not enter into the question at all.
§ Dr. ADDISONThe hon. Member should have challenged the point on Clause 24 under which drainage rates are paid, I am afraid the hon. Member has not considered the earlier parts of the Bill. This does not create any new principle.
§ Mr. EVERARDWe have reached a most extraordinary position. When the right hon. Gentleman for Hythe (Sir P. Sassoon) proposes to continue something which has been running for over 1,200 years the Minister of Agriculture turns it down because it is old and obsolete, but now he seriously asks us to maintain a system of election which he admits has gone on for 400 years and which is totally different to any other form of election on the ground that it is the best method of election for this particular purpose. Although it is after twelve o'clock and this is a long manuscript Amendment, I am glad that hon. Members have kept the debate going long enough for some of us to understand what the proposal really does mean. I had some doubt as to what I should do on the Third Reading of the Bill, but having seen the slipshod manner in which this legislation is being brought forward I shall take every opportunity of voting against the Measure.
§ Sir B. PETOLet me put this point to the right hon. Gentleman. Suppose that a heavy drainage rate has been imposed by a drainage authority are we to understand that if an election is pending 207 that everyone has to pay this heavy drainage rate to which they object as being excessive before they can vote, and that if they do not pay they are not to have the opportunity of voting for a new drainage authority and a different policy? That is what this proposal undoubtedly means. No one will be able to make any effective protest against an excessive rate until they have paid the rate to which they object. I cannot imagine a more undemocratic proposal, and the argument that this has existed for 400 years comes strangely from a Government who are
§ supposed to be advanced in their views and always ready to take up new causes. It is an extraordinary proposal to deprive people who elect drainage boards of any electoral power whatever unless they first pay the rate against which they are protesting. If that is the way this legislation is managed and pushed through this House no protest is strong enough and we ought to divide against it.
§ Question put, "That the words proposed to be left out stand part of the Bill."
§ The House divided: Ayes, 78; Noes, 164.
209| Division No. 472.] | AYES. | [12.20 a.m. |
| Acland-Troyte, Lieut-Colonel | Falle, Sir Bertram G. | Penny, Sir George |
| Ashley, Lt.-Col. Rt. Hon. Wilfrid W. | Fielden, E. B. | Peto, Sir Basil E. (Devon, Barnstaple) |
| Aske, Sir Robert | Foot, Isaac | Pybus, Percy John |
| Atholl, Duchess of | Fremantle, Lieut.-Colonel Francis E. | Ramsay, T. B. Wilson |
| Baldwin, Rt. Hon. Stanley (Bewdley) | Ganzoni, Sir John | Ramsbotham, H. |
| Bainiel, Lord | Gault, Lieut.-Col. Andrew Hamilton | Ruggles-Brise, Lieut.-Colonel E. A. |
| Bird, Ernest Roy | George, Major G. Lloyd (Pembroke) | Russell, Alexander West (Tynemouth) |
| Blindell, James | Gibson, C. G. (Pudsey & Otley) | Samuel, A. M. (Surrey, Farnham) |
| Bourne, Captain Robert Croft | Glassey, A. E. | Sandeman, Sir N. Stewart |
| Braithwaite, Major A. N. | Granville, E. | Shepperson, Sir Ernest Whittome |
| Brown, Ernest (Leith) | Gray, Milner | Smithers, Waldron |
| Brown, Brig.-Gen.H.C.(Berks,Newb'y) | Gunston, Captain D. W. | Somerville, A. A. (Windsor) |
| Burton, Colonel H. W. | Hacking, Rt. Hon. Douglas H. | Somerville, D. G. (Willesden, East) |
| Butler, R. A. | Hanbury, C | Southby, Commander A. R. J. |
| Carver, Major W. H. | Henderson, Capt. R. R.(Oxf'd,Henley) | Titchfield, Major the Marquess of |
| Cayzer, Maj. Sir Herbt. R. (Prtsmth,S.) | Heneage, Lieut.-Colonel Arthur P. | Todd, Capt. A. J. |
| Chadwick, Capt. Sir Robert Burton | Hennessy, Major Sir G. R. J. | Train, J. |
| Colfox, Major William Philip | Hunter, Dr. Joseph | Turton, Robert Hugh |
| Courthope, Colonel Sir G. L | Hutchison, Maj.-Gen. Sir R. | Ward, Lieut.-Col. Sir A. Lambert |
| Crookshank, Capt. H. C. | Jones, F. Llewellyn (Flint) | Waterhouse, Captain Charles |
| Dairymple-White, Lt.-Col. Sir Godfrey | Knox, Sir Alfred | Wells, Sydney R. |
| Davidson, Rt. Hon. J. (Hertford) | Lamb, Sir J. Q. | Windsor-Clive, Lieut.-Colonel George |
| Davies, E. C. (Montgomery) | Mason, Colonel Glyn K. | Wolmer, Rt. Hon. Viscount |
| Dixey, A. C. | Monsell, Eyres, Com. Rt. Hon. Sir B. | Womersley, W. J. |
| Edmondson, Major A. J. | Oliver, P. M. (Man., Blackley) | |
| Elmley, Viscount | Ormsby-Gore, Rt. Hon. William | TELLERS FOR THE AYES.— |
| Everard, W. Lindsay | Owen, H. F. (Hereford) | Captain Sir George Bowyer and Captain Wallace. |
| NOES. | ||
| Adamson, Rt. Hon. W. (Fife, West) | Cocks, Frederick Seymour | Henderson, W. W. (Middx., Enfield) |
| Adamson, W. M. (Staff., Cannock) | Compton, Joseph | Herriotts, J. |
| Addison, Rt. Hon. Dr. Christopher | Daggar, George | Hirst, G. H. (York W. R. Wentworth) |
| Aitchison, Rt. Hon. Craigie M. | Dalton, Hugh | Hoffman, P. C. |
| Alexander, Rt. Hon. A. V. (Hillsbro') | Davies, Rhys John (Westhoughton) | Hopkin, Daniel |
| Alpass, J. H. | Denman, Hon. R. D. | Hudson, James H. (Huddersfield) |
| Arnott, John | Duncan, Charles | Isaacs, George |
| Barnes, Alfred John | Ede, James Chuter | Jenkins, W. (Glamorgan, Neath) |
| Barr, James | Edmunds, J. E. | Johnston, Thomas |
| Batey, Joseph | Edwards, C. (Monmouth, Bedwellty) | Jones, T. I. Mardy (Pontypridd) |
| Bellamy, Albert | Edwards, E. (Morpeth) | Jowitt, Sir W. A. (Preston) |
| Benn, Rt. Hon. Wedgwood | Gardner, B. W. (West Ham, Upton) | Kennedy, Thomas |
| Benson, G. | Gibbins, Joseph | Kinley, J. |
| Bentham, Dr. Ethel | Gibson, H. M. (Lanes, Mossley) | Lansbury, Rt. Hon. George |
| Bondfield, Rt. Hon. Margaret | Gill, T. H. | Lathan, G. |
| Bowen, J. W. | Gossling, A. G. | Law, A. (Rosendale) |
| Brockway, A. Fenner | Gould, F. | Lawrence, Susan |
| Brooke, W. | Greenwood, Rt. Hon. A. (Colne) | Lawrie, Hugh Hartley (Stalybridge) |
| Brothers, M. | Grenfell, D. R. (Glamorgan) | Lawson, John James |
| Brown, C. W. E. (Notts. Mansfield) | Groves, Thomas E. | Lawther, W. (Barnard Castle) |
| Brown, Rt. Hon. J. (South Ayrshire) | Grundy, Thomas W. | Leach, W. |
| Buchanan, G. | Hall, G. H. (Merthyr Tydvil) | Lee, Frank (Derby, N.E.) |
| Burgess, F. G. | Hall, Capt. W. G. (Portsmouth, C.) | Lee, Jennie (Lanark, Northern) |
| Calne, Derwent Hall- | Hardie, George D. | Lees, J. |
| Cameron, A, G. | Hastings, Dr. Somerville | Lewis, T. (Southampton) |
| Carter, W. (St. Pancras, S.W.) | Haycock, A. W. | Lloyd, C. Ellis |
| Charleton, H. C. | Hayday, Arthur | Logan, David Gilbert |
| Church, Major A. G. | Henderson, Arthur, Junr. (Cardiff, S.) | Longden, F. |
| Clarke, J. S. | Henderson, Thomas (Glasgow) | Lovat-Fraser, J. A. |
| MacDonald, Malcolm (Bassetlaw) | Palin, John Henry | Snowden, Thomas (Accrington) |
| McElwee, A. | Paling, Wilfrid | Stamford, Thomas W. |
| McEntee, V. L. | Parkinson, John Allen (Wigan) | Strauss, G. R. |
| McGovern, J. (Glasgow, Shettleston) | Perry, S. F. | Sullivan, J. |
| Mckinlay, A. | Pethick-Lawrence, F. W. | Sutton, J. E. |
| MacLaren, Andrew | Picton-Turbervill, Edith | Taylor, R. A. (Lincoln) |
| McShane, John James | Potts, John S. | Thurtle, Ernest |
| Mansfield, W. | Rathbone, Eleanor | Tinker, John Joseph |
| Marcus, M. | Richardson, R.(Houghton-le-Spring) | Tout, W. J. |
| Marley, J. | Ritson, J. | Vaughan, D. J. |
| Marshall, Fred | Roberts, Rt. Hon. F. O.(W. Bromwich) | Wallace, H. W. |
| Mathers, George | Romeril, H. G. | Watts-Morgan, Lt.-Col. D. (Rhodda) |
| Maxton, James | Rosbotham, D. S. T. | Wayland, Sir William A. |
| Messer, Fred | Rowson, Guy | Wedgwood, Rt. Hon. Josiah |
| Milner, Major [...] | Samuel, H. Walter (Swansea, West) | Wellock, Wilfred |
| Morley, Ralph | Sanders, W. S. | Welsh, James (Paisley) |
| Morrison, Herbert (Hacknay, South) | Sawyer, G. F. | Westwood, Joseph |
| Mort, D. L. | Shepherd, Arthur Lewis | Whiteley wilfrid (Birm., Ladywood) |
| Moses, J. J. H. | Sherwood, G. H. | Williams Dr. J. H. (Llanelly) |
| Mosley, Sir Oswald (Smethwick) | Shield, George William | Williams, T. (York, Don valley) |
| Muff, G. | Shillaker, J. F. | Wilson, R. J. (Jarrow) |
| Murnin, Hugh | Sinkinson, George | Winterton, G. E.(Leicester,Leughb'gh) |
| Naylor, T. E. | Smith, Ben (Bermondsey, Rotherhithe) | Wise, E. F. |
| Newman, Sir R. H. S. D. L. (Exeter) | Smith, Frank (Nuneaton) | |
| Noel Baker, P. J. | Smith, Rennie (Penistone) | TELLERS FOR THE NOES.— |
| Oldfield, J. R. | Smith, Tom (Pontefract) | Mr. Hayes and Mr. William Whiteley. |
| Oliver, George Harold (Ilkeston) | Smith, W. R. (Norwich) |
Question put, and agreed to.
§ Proposed words there inserted in the Bill.
§ Dr. ADDISONI beg to move in page 77, line 5, to leave out from the word "following" to the end of line 8, and to insert instead thereof the word "scale."
§ Dr. ADDISONIn the Bill, as it was before, we provided for rates according to acreage. This Schedule provides a scale for votes according to acreage. We have now struck out of the Bill the acreage provisions and necessarily a Schedule, which prescribes the number of votes that a man ought to get according to what he paid in this way, must also disappear from the Bill.
§ Amendment agreed to.
§ Dr. ADDISONI beg to move in page 77, line 21, leave out from the beginning to the end of line 39.
This Amendment deletes the acreage specification for votes.
§ Lieut.-Colonel HENEAGEWe are going to leave out everything to do with voting according to acreage. What is the right hon. Gentleman going to put in its place? Has he some other scheme? Is he going to alter the total number of members?
§ Dr. ADDISONThe hon. and gallant Member will remember that under the Bill annual value takes the place of acreage, and the part relating to annual value is on the upper part of the page and still remains in the Bill. That qualification for votes still remains; the acreage portion, however, disappears.
§ Amendment agreed to.
§ Sir W. WAYLANDI beg to move, in page 78, line 6, to leave out the words "absolutely entitled as owner to," and to insert instead thereof the words; "the owner of."
§
This is a manuscript Amendment. Part 11 of this Schedule reads as follows:
No person shall be qualified for election as a member of a drainage board unless he is … absolutely entitled as owner to not less than 10 acres of land …
§ This wording shuts out the owner for life and so the Minister has accepted this Amendment, which will not exclude the owner for life.
§ Mr. HASLAMI beg to second the Amendment.
§ Amendment agreed to.
§ Dr. ADDISONI beg to move, in page 78, line 13, to leave out the words, "a hereditament," and to insert instead thereof the word "land."
§ This Amendment simply makes it clear that land is referred to.
§ Amendment agreed to.
211§ Dr. ADDISONI beg to move, in page 78, line 17, to leave out paragraph (d), and to insert instead thereof the words:
(d) a person nominated as a candidate for election by the owner (whether the owner is an individual or a body of persons) of land which is situate in the electoral district in question, and is either of not less than 10 acres in extent or of the annual value of thirty pounds or upwards.
§ Sir E. SHEPPERSONIs it the intention of this new paragraph that a person nominated by an owner must himself be the owner of not less than 10 acres in extent?
§ Dr. ADDISONThat is so.
§ Amendment agreed to.
§ Dr. ADDISONI beg to move, in page 78, line 22, to leave out from the word "no," to the end of paragraph, and to insert instead thereof the words:
person shall be deemed to be qualified as aforesaid as being an occupier of any land if at the date of the election any amount demanded in respect of any drainage rate levied on that land has remained unpaid for more than one month, and no person shall be deemed to be qualified as aforesaid as being the owner, or a person nominated by the owner, of any land if at the date of the election any amount demanded in respect of any owner's drainage rate levied in respect of that land has remained unpaid for more than one month.
§ This is to fulfil an undertaking that I gave in Committee with regard to disqualification.
§ Amendment agreed to.