HC Deb 23 July 1930 vol 241 cc2141-3
42. Mr. E. BROWN

asked the First Commissioner of Works if he has any further announcement to make with reference to the Calton site, Edinburgh?

Mr. LANSBURY

The answer is in the negative. The position is still as stated in my reply of the 7th instant to my hon. Friend the Member for Edinburgh, West (Mr. Mathers).

Mr. BROWN

Has the right hon. Gentleman's attention been called to the fact that, although he thinks it is not desirable to make a statement, the permanent head of his Department has given an interview to the "Scotsman," which has caused very great feeling in Scotland in regard to this matter?

Mr. LANSBURY

I am perfectly well aware of the interview which took place. It was in order to correct certain misstatements which occurred in the newspapers a couple of days previously.

Mr. BROWN

If that is so, cannot the right hon. Gentleman make a definite statement in this House, and not leave it to the permanent head of his Department, a man whom we cannot question in this House?

Mr. LANSBURY

The House is well aware of the fact that negotiations are proceeding between the Department and the Edinburgh Corporation in relation to this matter, and I can only ask hon. Members interested to have patience until the conclusion of those negotiations.

Mr. BROWN

Is the right hon. Gentleman not more open to the plea that has been urged many times in this House, that the buildings on this site should be thrown open to open competition, and that it should not be taken for granted that all the architectural wisdom is in the possession of Sir Lionel Earle and his colleagues?

Mr. LANSBURY

Hon. Members ought not to make statements in regard to a permanent official.

Mr. BROWN

He Should not give interviews.

Mr. LANSBURY

I have, I think on two occasions, made a fairly full statement as to the Department's position in regard to these buildings. It was decided by my predecessor that the design and the architectural responsibility for these buildings should be in the hands of the chief architect in the Office of Works. That was decided before I occupied my present office. I made a statement in the House a month ago, and I adhere to that statement.

Mr. BROWN

If the right hon. Gentleman does not desire that the permanent heads of his Department should be mentioned in this House, will be restrain them from giving interviews, and will the right hon. Gentleman himself give answers on the Floor of this House to the elected Members of this House?

Mr. LANSBURY

I am willing now to answer any question that the hon. Member or any other hon. Member chooses to put on the Order Paper, but I cannot answer questions unless they are asked.

Mr. BROWN

On a point of Order. Arising out of the reflection contained in the answer, may I point out that I put other questions supplementary to this, and that they were refused at the Table, so that we are not given the full privilege of getting answers in this House from the Minister. Therefore, may I have your protection, Mr. Speaker, against reflections by the Minister upon Members of this House who are debarred by the action taken at the Table from putting publicly the questions which they desire to put in the interests of their constituents?

Mr. SPEAKER

The hon. Member is now making reflections on the Clerks at the Table, which I do not think he is justified in making without knowing the full facts of the case.

Mr. BROWN

May I point out that last Friday I handed in a question at the Table, asking the question which now appears on the Order Paper, plus a demand for a statement from the Minister respecting open competition. That was refused by the Chair, and now, when I put a question to the right hon. Gentleman, I am told by the Minister that I have not raised it and am rebuked by him on the Floor of the House because I assert my rights, after having been debarred at the Table from putting my question.

Mr. LANSBURY

I have no desire to say anything derogatory of the hon. Member, but he asked why I did not take the responsibility of answering questions on the Floor of the House, instead of leaving it to the permanent head of the Department. My reply to that was that I could only answer such questions as were put to me by the hon. Member. To that I adhere. I cannot be responsible that certain questions by the hon. Member were not permitted to appear on the Order Paper.

Mr. SPEAKER

May I say on that matter that I am prepared to take the full responsibility?

Mr. BROWN

I am much obliged. I would never have raised the matter publicly but for the reflection contained in the answer of the right hon. Gentleman.