HC Deb 22 July 1930 vol 241 cc2104-11
The LORD ADVOCATE

I beg to move, in page 95, line 19, at the end, to insert the words: (10) Where in pursuance of the powers conferred by the foregoing provisions of this section a local authority provide a parking place which may be used by public service vehicles the local authority may, if it thinks fit, by order appoint that, parking place as a station for such vehicles, and where a parking place is so appointed the local authority may—

  1. (a) with the consent of the Minister do all such things as are necessary to adapt the parking place for use as a station for public service vehicles and, in particular, provide and maintain waiting rooms, ticket offices, and lavatories and other similar accommodation in connection therewith; and
  2. (b) make reasonable charges for the use of, or let on hire to any person, any accommodation so provided; and
  3. (c) make regulations as to the use of any such acommodation.
(11) The provisions of sub-sections (4), (5), (6), and (8) of section eighty-nine of this Act shall apply to any order under the foregoing sub-section of this section in like friendly way and voluntarily to take sub-section (2) of that section. This again is consequential and deals with the powers of the local authorities in connection with parking places.

Amendment agreed to.

Clause, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Bill reported; as amended on re-committal, considered.

Mr. HERBERT MORRISON

I beg to move, "That the Bill be now read the Third time."

I think the House is generally familiar with the provisions of the Bill, which is probably the longest Bill of the Session. Part I deals with the law relating to the control of motor traffic and, I hope, will be conducive to the safety of the public in connection with the use of the roads. Probably the provision in Part I which has caused the greatest comment is the abolition of the speed limit. I have said that I do not think that that provision, in itself, will make any difference to the existing practice upon the roads, but I would like to appeal to the police authorities and to the magistrates to co-operate with the Home Office and the Ministry of Transport in securing the vigorous administration of the law and to administer firmly the new penalties which are being imposed by the Bill in the interests of public safety. I would appeal also to the motoring public to co-operate with the authorities in a friendly way and voluntarily to take every possible care to reduce the accidents upon the highway. Perhaps in that direction the greatest hope will lie.

Part II deals with third party insurance, and that is familiar to the House. Part III deals with the amendment of the highway law; it includes provision for a code of conduct upon the highways, which I think will be exceedingly useful and conducive to good conduct; enables us, for the first time, to make grants towards a mobile police force; it enables us to codify notice boards on the highways throughout the country; and gives us powers for the regulation of traffic; and a very important Clause is added, for which some credit is due to the hon. and gallant Member for the Isle of Wight (Captain P. Macdonald) in connection with his own private Bill on the subject, which will give us very much greater powers towards the abolition of toll roads and toll bridges, and with reasonable economy to the local authorities.

Part IV is the real industrial reconstruction Part of the Bill and, in my judgment, one of the most important pieces of legislation we have passed this Session. It will enable us completely to organise road passenger transport upon a sound basis, both in the interests of the travelling public and of the undertakers themselves, and will secure certain minimum conditions for the work-people engaged in the industry. The scandal of the long hours of labour of certain motor coach drivers, which is dangerous to themselves and detrimental to the public safety, will be stopped, and, for the first time, a condition for the granting of a licence for all public service vehicles will be that they will be required to observe the Fair Wages Resolution of the House of Commons in force on Government contracts for the time being. There are requirements as to the fitness of vehicles, and special provisions are included to meet the case of London.

My attention has been drawn to the fact that some local authorities are granting licences on a rather wholesale basis at the present time, on the assumption that their functions will come to an end and that it does not matter much what happens. I want to appeal to the local authorities who are licensing authorities to exercise their powers with care and responsibility right up to the time when this Bill will come into force. In any case, if licences are irresponsibly granted or applied for, it must be made perfectly clear that the traffic commissioners will not be bound by the action of licensing authorities in the past, and least of all as regards licences to ply for hire which have been issued during the last few months.

12 m.

There is a very important Part of the Bill which is very pleasing to hon. Members on this side of the House who for many years, in company with some hon. Members opposite, have been fighting for the right of local authorities who are transport undertakers to run municipal omnibuses without coming to Parliament for powers in every specific case. That has been a fight for many years, and at last we have brought it to a successful end. There was provision in the Bill as it was introduced into the other House, and although this incorporates part of the Omnibuses Bill, which was introduced by my hon. Friend the Member for Mile End (Mr. Scurr), and was regarded as the really controversial part of the Bill, the curious thing is that in our illogical, but successful British fashion, we inserted that part of the Bill in about three-quarters of an hour in Committee with complete unanimity and after everybody on all sides of the Committee had congratulated each other on their common sense.

Mr. E. BROWN

After reasonable discussion.

Mr. MORRISON

Yes, after reasonable discussion with interests outside and with Members representing various parties, and after concessions had been given and taken on the various sides. These concessions enabled the Opposition to concur with us in what admittedly was something of a Socialistic advance—not the first Socialistic advance which has been supported by hon. Members opposite or even introduced by them. Therefore, we hope that the Bill, as amended, will be passed by this House and will rapidly pass into law with the co-operation of their Lordships' House.

Colonel ASHLEY

At this hour I am not going to say more than half-a-dozen sentences. The Minister has touched very aptly upon the chief characteristics of the Bill, and I think that we may, as a House, congratulate ourselves that this is not a party Bill. It is a Bill which represents the collective wisdom of the House as a whole, and it will, I hope, stand the test of time, and be the model of legislation in the next 20 years. It is a happy event that the only really big Bill of this Session should be a non-party Bill. I often think that it is not in the interests of real practical legislation that all parties should spend so much time in bringing in political Bills. Here we have an instance of a Bill which will really make road traffic easier and better. In my concluding sentence, I want to congratulate the hon. Gentleman upon the tactful way in which he has put his Bill through, in which he was so ably supported by the Solicitor-General.

Colonel HOWARD-BURY

May I also add my congratulations to the Minister on the passing of a Bill which is a record in many ways. On the Report stage we have had as many Amendments as there are days in the year, and it is the only good Bill that the Government has passed this Session. That is due to the fact that it is a Tory Bill which the Government took over. The only portions of the Bill which we do not look upon as good are the parts which the Minister has put in, and upon which he congratulated himself. It is in many ways an omnibus Bill, because it includes the Omnibuses Bill, the Tolls Bill, and the Bill to prevent the theft of motor-cars. What the Bill does above all—and I think it is right—is that it gives the Minister very great powers to make regulations. Traffic conditions are constantly changing, and, instead of having to come to the House in future, the Minister can do a great deal by regulations.

There are two questions I want to ask. The Minister has power to bring this Bill into operation on such day or days as he may appoint and he may fix different days for different provisions of the Bill. Does the Minister intend to bring Part I, which abolishes the speed limit, into operation immediately? He must have made up his mind by this time. Part II, which deals with third party risks, may require some little time. Is he going to bring that into operation at the same time or on 1st January? The Part that deals with road service licences, too, may require a little preparation. We ought to have time to prepare for the many changes that may be necessary, and I ask that he should give us fair warning.

We have to look ahead, and provisions which are good to-day may be out-of-date to-morrow. Our roads are getting more and more congested and one of the most important features under the Bill will be the Road Code. When will that be presented to the House? I believe the Road Code will do more to save life than anything else in the Bill. I hope he will confer with the Minister of Education to see whether it will not be possible to get the Road Code—[HON. MEMBERS: "Set to music!"]—sent to all the schools, so that the children may know and understand the perils of the roads. [HON. MEMBERS: "Agreed!"] I am glad hon. Members agree. This has been the Cinderella of Bills, brought on at a late hour time after time—[Interruption.]— and I think it is unfortunate if we cannot have the opportunity of making a few remarks. [interruption.] The more hon. Members keep on the longer I shall keep on. It is not my fault that it is so late. I have not been talking on the Finance Bill. I hope the Minister will get the Road Code into force as soon as possible and that he will get it spread to all parts of the country, and explained in the schools, so that from earliest youth people may be brought up to understand the dangers of the road. As we know, the Bill is a compromise. The Pedestrians' Association object to certain parts of it, and motorists to other parts. One point to be emphasised is the new offences which are created and the decision that the evidence of only one witness shall suffice. That is a very great danger.

Then there is the question of the danger from fire in public vehicles. The Minister has told us he has power to make regulations. The danger of fire is of great importance, and I think some provision should have been made to prevent the risk of fire in public vehicles. I have read the Bill through very carefully, and it does not contain a word about the danger of fire. I congratulate the Minister of Transport upon having had the courage to take over a Tory Bill and upon the prospects of bringing it into force.

Major GLYN

I am aware that hon. Members opposite want to go home, but we cannot part with this Bill without saying one or two words in the public interest. The Minister of Transport has, throughout the passage of this Bill, shown every desire to bring about compromises, and he has recognised the good work done by the Royal Commission. There is one Clause to which I desire to draw special attention, and that is the Clause dealing with the regulation of the wages and the hours of workers on the roads. An agreement was arrived at by the representatives of employers and the workers' organisations throughout the country, and it passed through as an agreed Clause. That is a good thing to have happened, and this is the first Bill where a provision of that kind has been put in by the common agreement of workers and employers.

My own view is that too much attention has been paid to speed, and far too little attention to the control over vehicles. What really happens in the case of accidents through dangerous driving is that vehicles run at a speed which is too great when they have not full control over the vehicle. Young men and young women must learn that they cannot drive over the roads like mad. I am afraid that that will be the real danger. I appeal to the Home Office to realise that, in the initial stages of this Act, it is very essential that the penalties should be exercised with full rigour, and the Home Office should see that at dangerous places a fully qualified constable is placed to report reckless drivers, and run them in. We want to see the Bill operated in an efficient manner. I hope that everybody will see that, when the provisions of the Bill come into force, they will be properly observed and supervised. I congratulate the Minister on the passage of this Measure, and I am glad that he has recognised the responsibilities of the larger undertakings on the roads.

Mr. HALL-CAINE

As one who has given the Minister of Transport as much trouble as any other hon. Member during the discussions in Committee on this Bill, I want to congratulate the hon. Gentleman upon his prospects of getting the Bill through the House. The hon. and gallant Member for Chelmsford (Colonel Howard-Bury) said that this was a Tory Bill, and was the best Measure that the Government had introduced. My own view is that, although the earlier parts of the Bill have a Tory tinge about them, the latter parts dealing with labour are the best, and the Tories have had nothing whatever to do with them. I sincerely trust that we shall not find a great increase in the number of deaths from accidents in consequence of the abolition of the speed limit. I believe that there are about 100 hon. Members who fear that the result will be an increase in the number of accidents, but if the Minister finds that the number increases in consequence of the abolition of the speed limit, I hope that he will take his courage in both hands, and come to the House with a proposal to impose another speed limit.

Mr. HERBERT MORRISON

The hon. and gallant Member for Chelmsford (Colonel Howard-Bury) will not expect me to go into details now on the points that he raised, but, if he will put a question to me on Wednesday next as to the dates on which the various parts of the Bill will come into operation, I may possibly be able to tell him. I cannot be sure, but I will do my best. I cannot accept his view that the Bill as it now stands is a Tory Bill, or ever was; it is a very different Bill from that which was circulated by the last Government. Municipal omnibuses are there; Part IV is based on an entirely different scheme; fair wages, limited hours, and so on, are there; and I would not like my hon. Friends to be deceived by the hon. and gallant Member's observation, which I do not for one moment accept.