HC Deb 17 July 1930 vol 241 cc1526-31

Section two of the Finance Act, 1928, shall be amended by the addition to subsection (8) after the words "in respect of the oil so used" of the following words:— or in the case of a person using hydrocarbon oil as the raw material of his manufacture or as an element in the process of manufacture he may make application for relief to the commissioners, and if it appears to the satisfaction of the commissioners that the applicant has at any time within the period of twelve months or such lesser period for which his accounts have last been made up used any quantity of hydro-carbon oil, either as a raw material or in the process of manufacture, he shall be entitled to obtain from the commissioners repayment of any duty which has been paid in respect of the oil so consumed, so however that no person shall receive repayment both under this sub-section and by way of drawback under sub-section six in respect of the same hydro-carbon oils."—[Sir A. Lambert Ward.]

Brought up, and read the First time.

Lieut.-Colonel Sir A. LAMBERT WARD

I beg to move, "That the Clause be read a Second time."

This new Clause, which was debated in Committee, has been put down with the idea of helping paint and varnish firms, particularly in the North of England, who are now subject to the duty on these hydro-carbon oils in respect of the turpentine and white spirit they use. It is a definite tax on a raw material of their industry, and with trade as it is and with unemployment increasing on every hand a tax on the raw material of an industry is a very serious thing indeed. This new Clause would give power to the Treasury to allow a rebate on any quantity of hydro-carbon oil or any similar material which a manufacturer can prove has been used as a raw material in the manufacture of an article. The articles which are principally covered by this new Clause are white spirit and turpentine. The duty upon these oils was imposed two years ago as part of the scheme for financing the de-rating Bill. While I admit that that Measure did require financing to a very considerable extent, the money has been largely provided by the duty on petrol which is used in internal combustion engines and for other purposes, and we feel that the users of these two raw materials, turpentine and white spirit, which cannot be a substitute for petrol in internal combustion engines, should be placed in the position where they can recover from the Treasury the duty upon such quantities of them as they have converted into manufactured articles. When the duty was originally imposed it was thought that it would be possible for manufacturers to recover the cost of it from consumers, but in practice that has proved not to be the case, and the duty is a burden on the industry.


I beg to second the Motion.


This Clause is, in terms, identical with the Clause which was rejected by the Committee without a Division. We had a quite interesting and, shall I say friendly, debate on the subject, and I was then unable to accept the Clause, or the Amendment which proposed to exempt turpentine and white spirit from the operation of the Petrol Duty. On that occasion I expressed no enthusiasm for the Petrol Duties as a whole, but I was compelled to resist the Amendment on two grounds, first, that the cost of the proposal would amount to £500,000 a year, and, secondly, because of the administrative difficulties in the way of giving a rebate. The objections which I rather regretfully had to put before the Committee will have to be expressed with equal reluctance to-day, but I hope the time may come when the finances of the country are in a better state and we may be in a position to reconsider the appeal which has been made to us.


I regret very much to hear the Chancellor's decision on this question, because it does affect a large number of trades in this country which could do with a little stimulus. This new Clause is based upon one which was inserted in the Finance Act of 1928 to deal with the exemption from the Petrol Duty of petrol used in the fishing industry. It has been suggested that evasion presents a difficult problem, and I know from what I have been told by revenue officers that when there was a duty on petrol previously there was considerable difficulty in dealing with exemptions which were granted in the case of petrol used by certain industrial concerns; but I was hopeful that this Clause might meet with the approval of the Chancellor. I quite agree that the consideration of cost is a serious one at the moment. However, if the right hon. Gentleman, in presenting his next Budget, will give favourable consideration to the grant of relief to the industries affected, that will be regarded by them as something better than meeting with a blank refusal. Those engaged in those industries feel that it is a hardship upon them to have to pay this duty. When Parliament agreed to impose the Petrol Duty it was not realised that we were going to tax these industries as well as those who used petrol in internal combustion engines. Little by little we hope to get these industries freed from the vexatious tax, and if the Cancellor will give this question very sympathetic consideration those on whose behalf I am speaking will feel a little more satisfaction than if they met with a blank refusal.

Question put, "That the Clause be read a Second time."

The House divided: Ayes, 153: Noes, 268.

Division No. 439.] AYES. [5.43 p.m.
Acland-Troyte, Lieut.-Colonel Gilmour, Lt.-Col. Rt. Hon. Sir John Pilditch, Sir Philip
Albery, Irving James Gower, Sir Robert Power, Sir John Cecil
Allen, Sir J. Sandeman (Liverp'l., W.) Grace, John Pownall, Sir Assheton
Allen, Lt.-Col. Sir William (Armagh) Graham, Fergus (Cumberland, N.) Ramsbotham, H.
Aske, Sir Robert Grattan-Doyle, Sir N. Rawson, Sir Cooper
Atkinson, C. Gretton, Colonel Rt. Hon. John Reid, David D. (County Down)
Baldwin, Rt. Hon. Stanley (Bewdley) Gritten, W. G. Howard Remer, John R.
Balniel, Lord Guinness, Rt. Hon. Walter E. Reynolds, Col. Sir James
Beamish, Rear-Admiral T. P. H. Gunston, Captain D. W. Rodd, Rt. Hon. Sir James Rennell
Betterton, Sir Henry B. Hacking, Rt. Hon. Douglas H. Ross, Major Ronald D.
Bird, Ernest Roy Hall, Lieut.-Col. Sir F. (Dulwich) Ruggles-Brise, Lieut.-Colonel E. A.
Bourne, Captain Robert Croft Hanbury, C. Russell, Alexander West (Tynemouth)
Briscoe, Richard George Hartington, Marquess of Salmon, Major I.
Brown, Col. D. C. (N'th'l'd., Hexham) Harvey, Major S. E. (Devon, Totnes) Samuel, A. M. (Surrey, Farnham)
Brown, Ernest (Leith) Henderson, Capt. R. R. (Oxf'd, Henley) Sandeman, Sir N. Stewart
Brown, Brig.-Gen. H. C. (Berks, Newb'y) Heneage, Lieut.-Colonel Arthur P. Sassoon, Rt. Hon. Sir Philip A. G. D.
Buchan, John Herbert, Sir Dennis (Hertford) Savery, S. S.
Buckingham, Sir H. Hills, Major Rt. Hon. John Waller Shepperson, Sir Ernest Whittome
Cadogan, Major Hon. Edward Howard-Bury, Colonel C. K. Skelton, A. N.
Cayzer, Sir C. (Chester, City) Hunter, Dr. Joseph Smith, R. W. (Aberd'n & Kinc'dine, C.)
Chamberlain, Rt. Hn. Sir J. A. (Birm., W.) Hurd, Percy A. Smithers, Waldron
Chamberlain, Rt. Hon. N. (Edgbaston) Hurst, Sir Gerald B. Somerville, A. A. (Windsor)
Chapman, Sir S. Iveagh, Countess of Southby, Commander A. R. J.
Christie, J. A. King, Commodore Rt. Hon. Henry D. Spender-Clay, Colonel H.
Cobb, Sir Cyril Knox, Sir Alfred Stanley, Lord (Fylde)
Cockerill, Brig.-General Sir George Lamb, Sir J. Q. Stanley, Maj. Hon. O. (W'morland)
Colfox, Major William Philip Lane Fox, Col. Rt. Hon. George R. Steel-Maitland, Rt. Hon. Sir Arthur
Colman, N. C. D. Law, Sir Alfred (Derby, High Peak) Thomson, Sir F.
Colville, Major D. J. Leighton, Major B. E. P. Tinne, J. A.
Courthope, Colonel Sir G. L. Lewis, Oswald (Colchester) Titchfield, Major the Marquess of
Cowan, D. M. Locker-Lampson, Rt. Hon. Godfrey Todd, Capt. A. J.
Cranborne, Viscount Long, Major Eric Train, J.
Crookshank, Capt. H. C. Lymington, Viscount Tryon, Rt. Hon. George Clement.
Culverwell, C. T. (Bristol, West) McConnell, Sir Joseph Turton, Robert Hugh
Cunliffe-Lister, Rt. Hon. Sir Philip Macdonald, Capt. P. D. (I. of W.) Vaughan-Morgan, Sir Kenyon
Dalkeith, Earl of Macpherson, Rt. Hon. James I. Wallace, Capt. D. E. (Hornsey)
Dalrymple-White, Lt.-Col. Sir Godfrey Macquisten, F. A. Ward, Lieut.-Col. Sir A. Lambert
Davies, Dr. Vernon MacRobert, Rt. Hon. Alexander M. Wardlaw-Milne, J. S.
Dawson Sir Philip Makins, Brigadier-General E. Waterhouse, Captain Charles
Duckworth, G. A. V. Marqesson, Captain H. D. Wells, Sydney R.
Dugdale, Capt. T. L. Marjoribanks, E. C. Williams, Charles (Devon, Torquay)
Eden, Captain Anthony Meller, R. J. Wilson, G. H. A. (Cambridge U.)
Edmondson, Major A. J. Merriman, Sir F. Boyd Windsor-Clive, Lieut.-Colonel George
Elliot, Major Walter E. Mitchell, Sir W. Lane (Streatham) Winterton, G. E. (Leicester, Loughb'gh)
England, Colonel A. Mitchell-Thomson, Rt. Hon. Sir W. Withers, Sir John James
Erskine, Lord (Somerset, Weston-s. M.) Monsell, Eyres, Com. Rt. Hon. Sir B. Womersley, W. J.
Falle, Sir Bertram G. O'Connor, T. J. Wood, Rt. Hon. Sir Kingsley
Ferguson, Sir John Oliver, P. M. (Man., Blackley) Worthington-Evans, Rt. Hon. Sir L.
Ferguson, Lord Ormsby-Gore, Rt. Hon. William Young, Rt. Hon. Sir Hilton
Galbraith, J. F. W. Peake, Captain Osbert
Ganzoni, Sir John Penny, Sir George TELLERS FOR THE AYES.—
Gibson, C. G. (Pudsey & Otley) Poto, Sir Basil E. (Devon, Barnstaple) Major Sir George Hennessy and
Captain Sir George Bowyer.
Adamson, Rt. Hon. W. (Fife, West) Bondfield, Rt. Hon. Margaret Chater, Daniel
Adamson, W. M. (Staff., Cannock) Bowen, J. W. Church, Major A. G.
Addison, Rt. Hon. Dr. Christopher Bowerman, Rt. Hon. Charles W. Clarke, J. S.
Aitchison, Rt. Hon. Craigie M. Broad, Francis Alfred Cluse, W. S.
Alexander, Rt. Hon. A. V. (Hillsbro') Bromfield, William Clynes, Rt. Hon. John R.
Alpass, J. H. Bromley, J. Cocks, Frederick Seymour
Ammon, Charles George Brooke, W. Compton, Joseph
Arnott, John Brothers, M. Cove, William G.
Attlee, Clement Richard Brown, C. W. E. (Notts, Mansfield) Daggar, George
Ayles, Walter Brown, Rt. Hon. J. (South Ayrshire) Dallas, George
Baker, John (Wolverhampton, Bilston) Brown, W. J. (Wolverhampton, West) Dalton, Hugh
Baldwin, Oliver (Dudley) Buchanan, G. Davies, E. C. (Montgomery)
Barnes, Alfred John Burgess, F. G. Davies, Rhys John (Westhoughton)
Batey, Joseph Buxton, C. B. (Yorks, W. R. Elland) Day, Harry
Bellamy, Albert Calne, Derwent Hall- Dickson, T.
Benn, Rt. Hon. Wedgwood Cameron, A. G. Dudgeon, Major C. R.
Bennett, Capt. Sir E. N. (Cardiff C.) Cape, Thomas Dukes, C.
Bennett, William (Battersea, South) Carter, W. (St. Pancras, S. W.) Duncan, Charles
Bentham, Dr. Ethel Charleton, H. C. Ede, James Chuter
Edmunds, J. E. Logan, David Gilbert Sanders, W. S.
Edwards, E. (Morpeth) Longbottom, A. W. Sandham, E.
Egan, W. H. Longden, F. Sawyer, G. F.
Evans, Capt. Ernest (Welsh Univer.) Lovat-Fraser, J. A. Scrymgeour, E.
Forgan, Dr. Robert Lowth, Thomas Scurr, John
Freeman, Peter Lunn, William Sexton, James
Gardner, B. W. (West Ham, Upton) Macdonald, Gordon (Ince) Shaw, Rt. Hon. Thomas (Preston)
Gardner, J. P. (Hammersmith, N.) MacDonald, Rt. Hon. J. R. (Seaham) Sherwood, G. H.
George, Major G. Lloyd (Pembroke) MacDonald, Malcolm (Bassetlaw) Shield, George William
George, Megan Lloyd (Anglesea) McElwee, A. Shiels, Dr. Drummond
Gibbins, Joseph McEntee, V. L. Shillaker, J. F.
Gibson, H. M. (Lancs, Mossley) MacLaren, Andrew Shinwell, E.
Gill, T. H. Maclean, Neil (Glasgow, Govan) Short, Alfred (Wednesbury)
Gillett, George M. McShane, John James Simmons, C. J.
Glassey, A. E. Mander, Geoffrey le M. Simon, E. D. (Manch'ter, Withington)
Gossling, A. G. Mansfield, W. Simon, Rt. Hon. Sir John
Gould, F. March, S. Sinclair, Sir A. (Caithness)
Graham, D. M. (Lanark, Hamilton) Marcus, M. Sinkinson, George
Graham, Rt. Hon. Wm. (Edin., Cent.) Markham, S. F. Sitch, Charles H.
Granville, E. Marley, J. Smith, Ben (Bermondsey, Rotherhithe)
Gray, Milner Marshall, Fred Smith, Frank (Nuneaton)
Greenwood, Rt. Hon. A. (Colne) Mathers, George Smith, H. B. Lees- (Keighley)
Grenfell, D. R. (Glamorgan) Matters, L. W. Smith, Rennie (Penistone)
Griffiths, F. Kingsley (Middlesbro' W.) Maxton, James Smith, Tom (Pontefract)
Griffiths, T. (Monmouth, Pontypool) Messer, Fred Smith, W. R. (Norwich)
Groves, Thomas E. Middleton, G. Snell, Harry
Grundy, Thomas W. Millar, J. D. Snowden, Rt. Hon. Philip
Hall, F. (York, W. R., Normanton) Mills, J. E. Snowden, Thomas (Accrington)
Hall, G. H. (Merthyr Tydvil) Milner, Major J. Stamford, Thomas W.
Hall, Capt. W. G. (Portsmouth, C.) Montague, Frederick Stephen, Campbell
Hamilton, Mary Agnes (Blackburn) Morgan, Dr. H. B. Stewart, J. (St. Rollox)
Hamilton, Sir R. (Orkney & Zetland) Morley, Ralph Strauss, G. R.
Hardie, George D. Morris, Rhys Hopkins Sullivan, J.
Harris, Percy A. Morris-Jones, Dr. J. H. (Denbigh) Sutton, J. E.
Haycock, A. W. Morrison, Robert C. (Tottenham, N.) Taylor, R. A. (Lincoln)
Hayday, Arthur Mort, D. L. Taylor, W. B. (Norfolk, S. W.)
Henderson, Right Hon. A. (Burnley) Moses, J. J. H. Thomas, Rt. Hon. J. H. (Derby)
Henderson, Arthur, Junr. (Cardiff, S.) Muggeridge, H. T. Thorne, W. (West Ham, Plaistow)
Henderson, Thomas (Glasgow) Murnin, Hugh Tillett, Ben
Henderson, W. W. (Middx., Enfield) Nathan, Major H. L. Tinker, John Joseph
Herriotts, J. Naylor, T. E. Toole, Joseph
Hirst, G. H. (York W. R. Wentworth) Newman, Sir R. H. S. D. L. (Exeter) Tout, W. J.
Hirst, W. (Bradford, South) Noel Baker. P. J. Townend, A. E.
Hoffman, P. C. Noel-Buxton, Baroness (Norfolk, N.) Viant, S. P.
Hopkin, Daniel Oldfield, J. R. Walkden, A. G.
Horrabin, J. F. Oliver, George Harold (Ilkeston) Walker, J.
Hudson, James H. (Huddersfield) Owen, Major G. (Carnarvon) Wallace, H. W.
Hutchison, Maj.-Gen. Sir R. Palin, John Henry. Wallhead, Richard C.
Isaacs, George Paling, Wilfrid Watkins, F. C.
John, William (Rhondda, West) Parkinson, John Allen (Wigan) Watson, W. M. (Dunlermline)
Johnston, Thomas Perry, S. F. Wellock, Wilfred
Jones, Rt. Hon. Leif (Camborne) Pethick-Lawrence, F. W. Welsh, James (Paisley)
Jones, Morgan (Caerphilly) Phillips, Dr. Marion West, F. R.
Jones, T. I. Mardy (pontypridd) Picton-Turbervill, Edith Westwood, Joseph
Jowett, Rt. Hon. F. W. Pole, Major D. G. Whiteley, Wilfrid (Birm., Ladywood)
Jowitt, Sir W. A. (Preston) Potts, John S. Whiteley, William (Blaydon)
Kelly, W. T. Price, M. P. Wilkinson, Ellen C.
Kennedy, Thomas Quibell, D. J. K. Williams, David (Swansea, East)
Knight, Holford Ramsay, T. B. Wilson Williams, Dr. J. H. (Llanelly)
Lambert, Rt. Hon. George (S. Molton) Rathbone, Eleanor Williams, T. (York, Don Valley)
Lang, Gordon Raynes, W. R. Wilson, C. H. (Sheffield, Attercliffe)
Lansbury, Rt. Hon. George Richards, R. Wilson, J. (Oldham)
Lathan, G. Richardson, R. (Houghton-le-Spring) Wilson, R. J. (Jarrow)
Law, Albert (Bolton) Riley, Ben (Dewsbury) Winterton, G. E. (Leicester, Loughb'gh)
Law, A. (Rosendale) Riley, F. F. (Stockton-on-Tees) Wise, E. F.
Lawrence, Susan Ritson, J. Wood, Major McKenzie (Banff)
Lawrie, Hugh Hartley (Stalybridge) Roberts, Rt. Hon. F. O. (W. Bromwich) Wright, W. (Rutherglen)
Lawther, W. (Barnard Castle) Romeril, H. G.
Leach, W. Rosbotham, D. S. T. TELLERS FOR THE NOES.—
Lee, Frank (Derby, N. E.) Rowson, Guy Mr. Charles Edwards and Mr.
Lindley, Fred W. Salter, Dr. Alfred Hayes.
Lloyd, C. Ellis Samuel, H. Walter (Swansea, West)