HC Deb 10 July 1930 vol 241 cc750-5
Mr. HERBERT MORRISON

I beg to move, in page 44, line 7, to leave out from the beginning to the end of line 27, and to insert instead thereof the words:

  1. "(1) Subject to and in conformity with such general or other directions as may be given by the Minister a highway authority may cause or permit traffic signs to be placed on or near any road in their area.
  2. (2) Traffic signs shall be of the prescribed size, colour, and type except where the Minister authorises the erection of a sign of another character.
  3. (3) After the commencement of this Act no traffic signs shall be placed on or near any road except under and in accordance with the preceding provisions of this section.
Provided that."

These and the subsequent Amendments are all drafting Amendments. The definition of a traffic sign is given in the new Sub-section (8) on page 45, line 17. I have got a copy of the Clause as it will appear with the Amendment which I could read, but they are really all drafting Amendments.

Mr. REMER

I want to ask a question about this Amendment, which has only appeared on the Order Paper since the Committee stage. Are we to understand that the general purpose of the Bill is that there shall be regularised signs throughout the whole country? Everybody connected with the motoring industry, including motorists and motor manufacturers, is deeply concerned that there should be some definite scheme to tell motorists exactly what they are supposed to do. I ask the hon. Gentleman whether this Amendment is in accordance with what he proposed in the Committee stage? That was quite satisfactory, and it will save time if he can answer my question.

Mr. HERBERT MORRISON

I am delighted to know that at some stage of this Bill I gave the hon. Gentleman complete satisfaction. He never told me so in the Committee, and I feel much happier in consequence of his telling me now. The Amendments which I am moving are purely drafting Amendments, and do not alter the sense of the Clause. The general purpose of the Clause is that we should have throughout the country, in due course at any rate, a substantially national, uniform system of highway indications, whether those indications be upon the roadway itself or upon signposts or otherwise. I think it will be a great help towards the safe use of the roads that motorists shall know where to look for signs and what kind of signs they are likely to see, so that they may readily recognise them. There is another difficulty which has arisen in the unauthorised erection of signs outside houses. For instance, there is the sort of sign we all meet, "Beware of concealed drive." Under the Bill we can make the owner pull it down or pull it down ourselves, and charge him with the costs. I think that is very necessary and should be provided for.

There is a further case which came to my notice one day when driving from Middlesbrough to London, where a night sign caught the motorist's headlights. It was an illuminated advertising sign of an hotel miles away from where we were, and with the name of the town in big letters. The motorist is led to believe he has reached the town whereas the object is to tell him that when he does get there, that is the only hotel at which he should stay. Obviously, we must deal with that, because it is misleading to people on the road. We have complete power over all these things and to insist upon this national codification. I regard this Clause as one of the safety Clauses of the Bill, and I think it will be of very great value to us as time goes on.

Mr. MILLS

I should like to ask one question with regard to the proposed height of these signs. Everyone who is used to driving is well aware what I mean—the impossibility of seeing some of the signs because of the height. Some of the more progressive county councils and local authorities have reduced the height so that a motorist can see the signs at the level of his driving seat. If anything could be done to remedy that difficulty, I am perfectly certain it would be greatly appreciated by the whole of the driving community.

Mr. MORRISON

That is a point which will be considered. It is not settled yet. Any representations which hon. Members like to bring to me, I shall be very glad to take into account.

Mr. HALL-CAINE

I am delighted to hear of the standardisation of signs and colours and that the important point of the size of the signs has been raised. When I saw the Amendment on the Order Paper, I felt there was probably some significance where it said: except where the Minister authorises the erection of a sign of another character. May I suggest that that particular sign of another character should be a very much larger sign, such as they have in France, because now that the hon. Gentleman has abolished the speed limit entirely, his friends, when travelling at 60, 70 or 80 miles an hour, will want to be able to see the sign as they pass by. I think it is vitally necessary that the sign should be of sufficient size and the wording sufficiently large in order that they may be able to read it, because as things are at present everyone who does a great deal of motoring, as the Minister himself does, will agree with me that in many places at certain periods of the year, the signs are painted out and there is no name or direction on them. I can remember spending a very unpleasant night from about 12 midnight until six in the morning trying to find my way out of some Devonshire lanes Where all the signs were painted out. I sincerely hope the signs put up by the Minister will be such that it will not be necessary for them to be painted every year.

Mr. G. GIBSON

I should like to ask the Minister if he has any intention to make these signs illuminated at dangerous places at night time or put them up in a manner so that they reflect the headlights? I ask because only a few years ago a gentleman in the city of Leeds was going home one night and came to a point where there was no sign indicating that it was a danger point. He met his death at that place, and since then the authorities have erected a reflecting sign at that particular spot, with a red lamp at night. I should like to know whether it is intended to provide signs which can be seen at night by motorists at dangerous spots.

Mr. HERBERT MORRISON

The fact that hon. Members have been telling us their personal experiences is probably my fault. This is a question which will be kept in mind. No decision has yet been come to, because it is not wise to make decisions until the Bill has passed. We are preparing as much as we can, but we cannot be sure of the form in which the Bill will pass. Certainly the points raised are perfectly relevant, and they will be taken into account.

Amendment agreed to.

Further Amendments made: In page 44, line 29, leave out the words "signal, direction post, sign or device erected," and insert instead thereof the words "traffic sign."

In line 30, leave out the words "or displayed."

In line 32, after the word "undertaking," insert the words "any dock undertaking or any harbour undertaking."

In line 36, leave out from the word "which," to the second word "or," in line 38, and insert instead thereof the words "there is any traffic sign."

In line 39, leave out the word "prescribed," and insert instead thereof the word "traffic."—[Mr. Herbert Morrison.]

Mr. HERBERT MORRISON

I beg to move, in page 44, line 40, to leave out the words "or signal."

Mr. REMER

May I ask why the words "or signal" are to be left out? It is very important on certain occasions that signals should be given, and if the right hon. Gentleman will explain this point I shall be very much obliged.

Mr. MORRISON

In the course of the drafting of this Clause all the words that could possibly be found to guide us on this point were got together, and we chose the term "traffic sign." That is why we are proposing to eliminate those words.

Amendment agreed to.

Further Amendments made: In page 44, line 41, leave out the words "or signal is erected or displayed."

Leave out from the first word "it" to the word "and," in line 42.

In page 45, line 4, at the end, insert the words: Provided that the provisions of this subsection shall not apply in the case of any sign or object so long as its retention is expressly authorised by the highway authority.

In line 6, leave out the word "require," and insert instead thereof the word "cause."

Leave out from the word "any" to the second word "or," in line 7, and insert instead thereof the words "traffic sign."

In line 9, leave out the words "and if the," and insert instead thereof the words: (5) A bridge authority shall, if so directed by the Minister, remove, or cause to be removed, any notice in respect of the use of a bridge placed under any Act ar Order repealed by this Act, or by any Order under this Act. (6) If a.

After the word "highway" insert the words "or bridge."

In line 10, leave out the word "such."

After the word "direction" insert the words "given under either of the preceding Sub-sections."

In line 12, leave out the word "highway."

In line 14, after the word "highway" insert the words "or bridge."

In line 17, at the end, insert the words: (8) In this Part of this Act, the expression 'traffic sign,' includes all signals, warning sign posts, direction posts, signs, or other devices for the guidance or direction of persons using roads; and in this section the expression 'highway authority' includes any person responsible for the maintenance of a road.