HC Deb 26 February 1930 vol 235 cc2377-8

The expenses of the Board of Trade which are by this Act directed to be defrayed out of moneys provided by Parliament shall not be taken into account in computing the amount of the expenses of the Department of Mines for the purposes of the limit imposed by sub-section (2) of section five of the Mining Industry Act, 1920, upon the expenses of that department.—[Mr. W. Graham.]

Brought up, and read the First time.

Mr. W. GRAHAM

I beg to move, "That the Clause be read a Second time."

As hon. Members are aware under the Mining Industry Act, 1920, there is a limit to the animal expenditure of the Mines Department of £250,000. Clearly, if the expenditure incurred under this Bill upon amalgamation schemes were included in the ordinary Mines Department Vote, that amount would be very greatly exceeded, and in order to get rid of that difficulty we separate that expenditure, that is to say, we take it outside the limitation altogether. The Clause is necessary for that purpose.

Captain BOURNE

I have only one question to ask. If the expenditure is not to be shown under the Vote of the Mines Department, where will it be given in the Estimates and where will the House have an opportunity of discussing it? I have no objection to the Clause, but I wish to know where it will be discussed, as the right hon. Gentleman says it will not come on the Vote of the Mines Department.

Mr. GRAHAM

I cannot say precisely off-hand on which Vote it will be borne. I am in a little doubt, at the moment, as to whether it may be on the Board of Trade Vote or which Vote, but in any case it will be shown in one Vote or the other. The only object of the Clause is to get round the restriction in the Act of 1920.

Sir P. CUNLIFFE-LISTER

It is vital that there should be the fullest opportunity of discussing any expenditure which may take place under this Clause. The hon. Gentleman defeated, on a Division, a Motion of mine that certain matters should be put in order, and he defended his resistance to the proposal on the ground that there would be the fullest opportunity of discussion, on some Vote or other, of every single thing spent under this provision. I, equally, have no objection to this Clause going through, as long as it is clearly understood that we cannot let it go through without a Division except on the clear understanding that the whole expenditure will be shown on the appropriate Vote and the proper Parliamentary opportunity will be available for discussing it.

Mr. GRAHAM

My right hon. Friend need not have the smallest hesitation on that point. Whatever the precise Vote may be, the expenditure will be shown and against that expenditure, in so far as these expenses are recovered from the amalgamated undertakings, they will be shown in the form of an Appropriation-in-Aid. At the moment it is a little difficult to say on what precise Vote it will be, but it will be shown on a Vote for which there will be an opportunity for discussion in this House.

Question put, and agreed to.

Clause read a Second time, and added to the Bill.