§ Mr. FOOTI beg to move,
That leave be given to bring in a Bill to enable the Board of Trade to suspend or cancel the certificate of any master, mate, or engineer engaging in the illicit importation of intoxicating liquor into the territory of the United States of America.This Measure, which I have the honour to introduce, is supported by Members of all parties in this House. [HON. MEMBERS: "No!"] At any rate, hon. Members will have an opportunity of expressing their opinion. I do not ask them to say whether prohibition is a wise or an unwise policy.[Interruption.] I do ask hon. Members above the Gangway to give their attention to this Measure. A Bill with a somewhat similar purpose has already been passed 2730 by the Canadian Parliament, and a Measure which commands the approval of a large Dominion Parliament should certainly commend itself to the British Parliament. This is a question which has been debated by the American people for a period of 10 years, and unfortunately, in the attempt to defeat the prohibition of the importation of intoxicating liquors into the United States of America, many British vessels have been seized, and formidable difficulties have arisen. I would like to give a quotation from the "Times" of 29th October, 1923, which shows what was said by an American authority at that date:Great fleets of British ships, loaded at British ports, and flying the British flag, hovered insolently along the entire coast, and, in open flagrant conspiracy with avowed smugglers, landed their illicit cargoes upon American soil.That was the condition of things which was removed by a Treaty approved by this House. That traffic has since been considerably reduced, but it still continues. There is no doubt whatever as to the official policy of this country in relation to this traffic. I have heard the representatives of a Conservative Government as well as the representatives of a Labour Government declare upon the Floor of the House the policy of this country in regard to this particular matter. It is not only a question which affects America, but it also affects ourselves. [Hon. MEMBERS: "Why?"] I remember Lord Cushendun, when a Member of this House and representing the Conservative party, declaring that the British Government was desirous of breaking down this illicit smuggling of intoxicating liquors, and that declaration was also made by the Prime Minister of the Labour Government. Certain British subjects have been acting in defiance of our national policy in this matter, and they could not have succeeded at all except for the fact that they enjoy the protection of the British flag. That simply amounts to this, that the British flag is being used for the defeat of the British policy. There can be no doubt whatever as to the danger to our international relations in regard to this matter. On this point, I would like to give a further quotation from the "Times" newspaper, which I suppose will be accepted by hon. Members above 2731 the Gangway. [Interruption.] The "Times" newspaper, in its leading article of 29th October, 1923, says:The complicity of these shippers in breaking the American law is flagrant. It does not enhance the credit of the British flag in the Western Atlantic; it irritates the most respectable citizens of America, and clearly does not help the good understanding between the two countries which recent events have done much to consolidate.If at any time it was necessary to put an end to this smuggling, surely we could not have a more appropriate time than just after the conclusion of a Treaty with the American people in regard to our naval policy? May I also draw attention to the following words written by Mr. Garvin only a few days ago in the "Observer":Everything that might impair Anglo-American concord must be eliminated or avoided with the most drastic decision.There are two sections in the Merchant Shipping Act of 1894 which give powers to the Board of Trade to deal with this matter. The Bill I am introducing proposes to extend that power so that the Board of Trade can withdraw or suspend the certificate of any master, mate, or engineer who knowingly engages in this traffic. It is not intended to make the action of the Board of Trade dependent upon the conviction of any foreign court. The certificate of these officers is a most precious possession, and should not be used in pursuance of a policy which is contrary to the declaration of the present Government. The Canadian Parliament a few weeks ago passed a Bill, the object of which wasTo refuse clearances for liquor destined for delivery to any country into which the importation of such liquor is prohibited by law.That Bill was introduced by the Prime Minister, Mr. Mackenzie King. It was supported by the Opposition in the Canadian Parliament, and the Third Reading was carried by 173 votes to 11. For these reasons, I ask that this Measure should receive the careful consideration of hon. Members. It is a Measure intended to vindicate the integrity of an ancient and honourable calling, and to check and defeat the purposes and devices of lawless men who are lowering the British name, and the reputation of this country. It is a Bill intended to prevent the base misuse of the British flag, and to strengthen the 2732 friendly relations between two great peoples, whose highest service to the world has been the establishment of the supremacy of the law.
§ Mr. MACQUISTENI have listened very attentively to the speech of the hon. Member for Bodmin (Mr. Foot), and I cannot see that there is any recessity at all for the introduction of this Bill. There are no British masters and mates engaged in this traffic.
§ Mr. SCRYMGEOURrose—[Interruption.]
§ Mr. SPEAKERWe cannot have more than two speakers on this occasion.
§ Mr. SCRYMGEOURrose—[Interruption.]
§ Mr. SPEAKERDoes the hon. Member rise to a point of Order?
§ Mr. SCRYMGEOURMy point of Order is that on a former occasion when a former Tory Member of this House was involved in a law suit, I endeavoured to bring it before this House, and found that it was impossible to do so.
§ Mr. MACQUISTENI know of no case where a British master or a British mate has been involved. It is an entirely different position in Canada, where a very lucrative trade has been done on the Canadian border, but the people who are breaking the law are American citizens. They have nothing to do with us. I remember speaking to a man who told me that he supplied a lot of very sound material compared with the industrial alcohol, which was manufactured in America, and which was taken out of the power alcohol distilleries there which supplied the American people. This gentleman told me that he was the Government importer, that the people to whom he sold it. had their sloops accompanied to the shore by a couple of American gunboats, and that he had been much better able to carry on his trade since the establishment of the 12–mile limit. Everybody in the United States knows that the whole thing is a gigantic imposture, and that only a few hysterical males and females believe in it. Why should we manufacture crime which is not a crime? If any British captain or seaman chooses to break the law of the United States, the United States will deal with it. But are we going to im- 2733 pinge on the freedom of the seas? [Interruption.] My hon. Friend the Member for the Sutton Division of Plymouth (Viscountess Astor) says that that is why I did not win my election, but I would remind her, that in spite of the enormous financial resources provided in the distant past from New York, she very nearly lost her own seat. I prophesy with absolute certainty that she will lose it the next time. I shall be very sorry to lose her, because she is the one bright spot of colour in a very drab institution. I say that without involving any back-handed compliment on the other Members of the same sex who also decorate and adorn this House.
It is preposterous that we in this great Parliament should bother our heads about a minor point of this kind. While the manufacture in the United States of anything in the nature of alcohol is forbidden, everybody can make it for himself, and everybody does. In the great State of California vast fortunes are made by the sale of grape juice in every part of America, and Italians skilled in the art make the juice into alcohol in the homes of the legion. They are engaged in a home industry. Would that there were a similar liberty here! If everybody in this country were allowed to make his own dope, it would very largely solve the unemployment question. Considering the inordinately cheap price to which sugar has been forced down by our Free Trade policy, it would be quite
§ easy for the unemployed themselves at the absolute minimum of cost to make much more than is necessary for their own consumption, and to supply it at the minimum of cost to those who are still engaged in industry, and who, under the present Government, are likely to be in a substantial minority. Therefore, it is preposterous for us to manufacture this crime which does not exist among British captains and mates, and it is on behalf of that body of honourable men that I regard this Bill as something in the nature of an insult. The only result will be that the men who sail the ships will not hold captains' or mates' certificates. A certificate is not needed to make dope in the United States. At the present moment I defy the hon. Member who has asked leave to introduce this Bill to tell rue of any British captain or mate holding the certificate of a. captain or mate—or, at most, more than one or two out of the tens of thousands—who en gages in this industry, and I oppose this Bill because I think it is a piece of nonsense that we should have been asked to waste our time upon it.
§
Question put,
That leave be given to bring in a Bill to enable the Board of Trade to suspend or cancel the certificate of any master, mate, or engineer engaging in the illicit importation of intoxicating liquor into the territory of the United States of America.
§ The House divided: Ayes, 215; Noes, 142.
2737| Division No. 258.] | AYES. | [4.11 p.m. |
| Adamson, Rt. Hon. W. (Fife, West) | Cowan, D. M. | Hall, F. (York, W.R., Normanton) |
| Adamson. W. M. (Staff., Cannock) | Daggar, George | Hall, Capt. W. P. (Portsmouth, C.) |
| Aitchison, Rt. Hon. Cralgie M. | Dallas, George | Hamilton, Slr R. (Orkney & Zetlandl |
| Alpass, J. H | Davies, Rhys John (Westhoughton) | Haroord, A. |
| Astor, Viscountess | Denman, Hon. R, D. | Hardie, George D. |
| Ayies, Walter | Dickson, T. | Haycock, A. W. |
| Baker, John (Wolverhampton, Bilston) | Dudgeon, Major C. R. | Hayes. John Henry |
| Bellamy, Albert | Duncan, Charles | Henderson, Thomas (Glasgow) |
| Benn, Rt. Hon. Wedgwood | Ede, James Chuter | Henderson, W. W. (Middx., En[...] |
| Bennett, Capt. E. N. (Cardiff,Central) | Edmunds, J. E. | Herriotts, J. |
| Benson, G. | Edwards, C. (Monmouth, Bedwellty) | Hirst, G. H. (York W. R. Wentworth) |
| Bilndell, James | Edwards, E. (Morpeth) | Hirst, W. (Bradford, South) |
| Bondfield, Rt. Hon. Margaret | Egan, W. H. | Hoffman, P. C. |
| Brockway, A. Fenner | Elmley, Viscount | Hollins. A. |
| Bromfield. William | Forgan, Dr. Robert | Horrabin, J. F. |
| Brooke, W. | Freeman, Peter | Hudson, James H. (Huddersfield) |
| Brothers, M. | George, Rt. Hon. D. Lloyd (Car'vn) | Hutchison, Maj-Gen. Sir N. |
| Brown, C. W. E. (Notts. Mansfield) | George, Megan Lloyd (Anglesea) | Isaacs, George |
| Brown, Rt. Hon. J. (South Ayrshire) | Gibson, H. M. (Lance, Moseley) | Jenkins, W. (Glamorgan, Neath) |
| Burgess, F. G. | Gill, T. H. | John, William (Rhondda, West) |
| Buxton, C. R. (Yorks. W. R. Elland) | Glassey, A. E. | Johnston, Thomas |
| Buxton, Rt. Hon. Noel (Norfolk, N.) | Gossling, A. G. | Jones, F. Llewellyn (Flint) |
| Cameron, A. G. | Gould, F. | Jones, Henry Haydn (Merioneth) |
| Cape, Thomas | Graham, D. M. (Lanark, Hamilton) | Janes, Rt. Hon. Leif (Camborne) |
| Carter, W. (St. Pancras, S.W.) | Granville, E. | Jones, Morgan (Caerphilly) |
| Charleion. H. C. | Gray, Milner | Jowett, Rt. Hon. F. W. |
| Chafer, Daniel | Grenfell, D. R. (Glamorgan) | Kedward, R. M. (Kent, Ashford) |
| Cocks, Frederick Seymour | Griffith, F. Kingsley (MIddlesbro. W.) | Kelly, W. T. |
| Collins, Sir Godfrey (Greenock) | Grundy, Thomas W. | Kenworthy, Lt.-Co[...]. Hon. Joseph N. |
| Kinley, J. | Newman, Sir R. H. S. D.L. (Exeter) | Smith, Ben (Bermondse Rotherhithe) |
| Lambert, Rt. Hon. George (S. Moiton) | Noel Baker, P. J. | Smith, Frank (Nuneaton) |
| Lang, Gordon | Oliver, P. M. (Man., Blackley) | Smith, H. B. Lees-Kaighley) |
| Lansbury, Rt. Hon. George | Owen, Major G. (Carnarvon) | Smith, Rennie (Penlstene) |
| Lathan, G. | Owen, H. F. (Hereford) | Smith, Tom (Pontefract) |
| Law, A. (Rossendale) | Palln, John Henry | Snell, Harry |
| Lawrence, Susan | Paling, Wilfrid | Snowden, Rt. Hon. Philip |
| Lawrie, Hugh Hartley (Stalybrldge) | Palmer, E. T. | Snowden, Thomas (AiitrIngton) |
| Lawther, W. (Barnard Castle) | Parkinson, John Alle (Wigan) | Sorensen, R. |
| Leach, W. | Perry, S. F. | Stamford, Thomas W. |
| Lee, Frank (Derby, N.E.) | Peters, Dr. Sidney John | Stewart, J. (St. Rollin) |
| Lee, Jennie (Lanark, Northern) | Pethick-Lawrence, F. W. | Sullivan, J. |
| Lees, J. | Phillips, Dr. Marlon | Sutton, J. E. |
| Lindley, Fred W. | Picton-Turbervill, Edith | Taylor, R. A. (Lincoln) |
| Longden, F. | Pole, Major D. G. | Taylor, W. B. (Norfolk, S.W.) |
| Lovat-Fraser, J. A. | Potts, John S. | Thurtle, Ernest |
| Lowth, Thomas | Price, M. P. | Tinker, John Joseph |
| Lunn, William | Pybus, Percy John | Townend, A. E. |
| Macdonald, Gordon (Ince) | Ramsay, T. B. Wilson | Trevelyan, Rt. Hon. Sir Charles |
| McEntee, V. L. | Rathbone, Eleanor | Turner,B. |
| McKinlay, A. | Raynes, W. R. | Vaughan, D. J. |
| McShane, John James | Richards, R. | Vlant, S. P. |
| Mender, Geoffrey le M. | Richardson, R. (Houghton-le-Spring) | Walkden, A. G. |
| Mansfield, W. | Riley, Ben (Dewsbury) | Walters, Rt. Hon. Sir J. Tudor |
| March, S. | Riley, F. F. (Stockton-on-Tees) | Watson, W. M. (Dunfermline). |
| Marcus, M. | Romeril, H. G. | Wedgwood, Rt. Hon. Josiah |
| Markham, S. F. | Rosbotham, D. S. T. | Weliock, Wilfred |
| Marshall, Fred | Rothschild, J. de | Welsh, James (Paislr) |
| Mathers, George | Rowson, Guy | Welsh, James C. (Coatbridge) |
| Matters, L. W. | Salter, Dr. Alfred | West, F. R. |
| Manton, James | Samuel, Rt. Hon. Sir H. (Darwen) | Wheatley, Rt. Hon. J. |
| Messer, Fred | Sanders, W. S. | White, H. G. |
| Millar, J. D. | Sawyer, G. F. | Whiteley, Wilfrid (Birn., Ladywood) |
| Mills, J. E. | Scrymgeour, E. | Whiteley, William Slaydon) |
| Milner, Major J. | Sexton, James | Wilkinson, Ellen C. |
| Morris, Rhys Hopkins | Sherwood, G. H. | Williams, David (Swansea, East) |
| Morris-Jones, Dr. J. H. (Denbigh) | Shield, George William | Williams, T. (York, Don Valley) |
| Morrison, Herbert (Hackney, South) | Shiels, Dr. Drummond | Wilson R. J. Jarrow) |
| Morrison, Robert C. (Tottenham, N.) | Shlnwell, E. | WInterton, G. E. (Leicester, Loughbgh) |
| Mort, D. L. | Simmons, C. J. | Wood, Major McKerzle (Banff) |
| Moses, J. J. H. | Simon, E. D. (Manch'ter, Withington) | |
| Mosley, Lady C. (Stoke-on-Trent) | Sinclair, Slr A. (Caithness) | TELLERS FOR THE AYES.— |
| Mosley, Sir Oswald (Smethwick) | Sinklnson, George | Mr. Foot and Mr. Holford Knight. |
| Muff, G. | Smith, Alfred (Sunderland) | |
| NOES. | ||
| Acland-Troyte, Lieut.-Colonel | Day, Harry | Locker-Lamoson, Rt Hon. Godfrey |
| Alien. Sir J. Sandeman (LIverpl., W.) | Duckworth, G. A. V. | Logan, David Glitter: |
| Allen, W. E. D. (Belfast, W.) | Dugdale, Capt. T. L. | Long, Major Eric |
| Atkinson, C. | Eden, Captain Anthony | McConnell, Sir Joseph |
| Baill[...]e-Hamilton, Hon. Charles W. | England, Colonel A. | Maitland, A. (Kent, Faversham) |
| Beamish, Rear-Admiral T. P. H. | Erskine. Lord (Somerset,Westons,-M.) | Makins, Brigadler-General E. |
| Bellairs, Commander Canyon | Falle, Sir Bertram G. | Marjoribanks. E. C |
| Berry, Sir George | Ferguson. Sir John | Meller, R. J. |
| Bird, Ernest Roy | Fermoy, Lord | Mitchell, Sir W. Lane (Streatham) |
| Bourne, Captain Robert Croft | Fielden, E. B. | Mond, Hon. Henry |
| Bowater, Col. Sir T. Vanslttart | Ford, Sir P. J. | Monsen, Eyres, Com. Rt. Hon. Sir B. |
| Bowerman, Rt. Hon. Charles W. | Forestler-Walker, Slr L. | Montague, Frederick |
| Boyce, H. L. | Fremantle, Lieut.-Colonel Francis E. | Morrison, W. S. (Gos., Cirencester) |
| Brown, Brig.-Gen.H.C.(Berks,Newb'y) | Ganzoni, Sir John | Morrison-Bell, Sir Arthur Clive |
| Buchan. John | Glyn, Major R. G. C. | Muirhead, A. J. |
| Buckingham, Sir H. | Graham, Fergus (Cumberland, N.) | Naylor, T. E. |
| Butler, R. A. | Grattan-Doyle. Sir N. | Ormsby-Gore, Rt. Hon. William |
| Carver, Major W. H. | Grenfeil, Edward C. (City of London) | Peake, Capt. Osbert |
| Cautley, Sir Henry S. | Gretton, Colonel Rt. Hon. John | Penny, Sir George |
| Cayzer, Slr C. (Chester, City) | Hall, Lieut.-Col. Sir F. (Dulwich) | Peto. Sir Base E. (Devon, Barnstaple) |
| Cazalet, Captain Victor A. | Hamilton, Sir George (Ilford) | Pilditch, Sir Philip |
| Chapman, Sir S. | Hammersley, S. S. | Power, Sir John Cecil |
| Church, Major A. G. | Hanbury, C. | Preston, Sir Walter Rueben. |
| Churchill, Rt. Hon. Winston Spencer | Hannon, Patrick Joseph Henry | Ramsbotham, H. |
| Cohen. Malor J. Brunel | Harvey, Major S. E. (Devon, Totnes) | Rawson. Sir Cooper |
| Colville, Major D. J. | Henoage, Lieut.-Colonel Arthur P. | Rantoul, Sir Gervais S. |
| Conway, Sir W. Martin | Hennessy, Major Sir G. R. J. | Reynolds, Col. Sir James |
| Courtauld, Major J. S. | Hills Major Rt. Hon. John Waller | Ross, Major Ronald D. |
| Courthope, Colonel Sir G. L. | Howard-Bury, Colonel C. K. | Ruggles-Brise, Lieut.-Colonel E. A. |
| Cranbourne, Viscount | Hudson, Capt. A. U. M. (Hackney, N.) | Russell, Alexander Pest (Tynernouth) |
| Croft, Brigadier-General Sir H. | Hurd, Percy A. | Salmon, Major I. |
| Crookshank, Capt. H. C. | Iveagh, Countess of | Samuel, A. M. (Surrey, Farnham) |
| Croom-Johnson, R. P. | James, Lleut-Colonel Hon. Cuthbert | Shennerson, Sir Ernest Whittome |
| Dalkeith Earl of | Kennedy, Thomas | Shillaker, J. F. |
| Dalrymple-White, Lt.-Col. Sir Godfrey | King, Commodore Rt. Hon. Henry D. | Skelton, A. N. |
| Davidson, Rt. Hon. J. (Hertford) | Knox, Sir Alfred | Smith, Louis W. (Sheffield, Hallam) |
| Davies, Dr. Vernon | Lamb, Sir J. Q. | Smith, R. W. (Aberd'n & Klnc'dine,C.) |
| Davies, Maj. Geo. F. (Somerset,Yeovil) | Law, Sir Alfred (Derby, High Peak) | Smith-Carington, Neville W. |
| Davison, Sir W. H. (Kensington, S.) | Leighton, Major B. E. P. | Smlthers, Waldron |
| Somerset, Thomas | Tryon, Rt. hon. George Clement | Winterton, Rt. Hon. Earl |
| Somerville, A. A. (Windsor) | Vaughan-Morgan, Sir Kenyon | Womersley, W. J. |
| Stewart, W. J. (Belfast South) | Wallace, Capt. D. E. (Hornsey) | Wood, Rt. Hon. Sir Kingsley |
| Sueter, Rear-Admiral M. F. | Wardlaw-Milne, J. S. | Worthington-Evans, Rt. Hon. Sir L. |
| Thomas, Major L. B. (King's Norton) | Warrender, Sir Victor | Wright, W. (Ruthergien) |
| Thomson, Sir F. | Watts-Morgan, Lt.-Col. D. (Rhondda) | Young, Rt. Hon. Sir Hilton |
| Tinne, J. A. | Wayland, Sir William A. | |
| Titchfleld, Major the Marquess of | Wells, Sydney R. | TELLERS FOR THE NOES. |
| Todd, Capt. A. J. | Williams, Charles (Devon, Torquay) | Mr. F. A. Macquisten and Commander Southby. |
| Train, J. | Windsor-Clive, Lieut.-Colonel George |
Resolution agreed to.
§ Bill ordered to be brought in by Mr. Foot, Sir William Allen, Viscountess Astor, Mr, Barr, Mr. Birkett, Dr. Burgin, Mr. Holford Knight, Mr. Leif Jones, Mr. Moses, Sir Robert Newman, Colonel Wedgwood, and Mr. Graham White.