HC Deb 06 March 1929 vol 226 cc433-6

Amendment made:

In page 24, line 22, leave out the words "roads, but that only in the case of a county council," and insert instead thereof the words "in the case of a county council, roads."—[Sir J. Gilmour.]

Sir J. GILMOUR

I beg to move, in page 24, line 27, at the end, to insert the words Provided that the council in preparing the administrative scheme so far as relating to education shall consult with the education authority of the area. This Amendment carries out a pledge which I gave on the fourth day of the Committee stage to the hon. Member for Midlothian and Peebles (Mr. Westwood) to accept the principle requiring the county council or town council to consult with the education authority.

Mr. WEDGWOOD BENN

On a point of Order. I have down an Amendment to the Amendment which I hope I may be allowed to explain, at least to the Chair.

Mr. DEPUTY-SPEAKER (Sir Dennis Herbert)

The hon. Member will have an opportunity when we reach his Amendment to Amendment. At present, we are dealing with the original Amendment moved by the right hon. Gentleman the Secretary of State.

Mr. BENN

I was only anxious that my Amendment should be preserved.

Mr. WESTWOOD

Did I understand the right hon. Gentleman to say that this Amendment referred only to the education committees of the large burghs? I think the undertaking given was that all outgoing education authorities should be taken into consultation, either by the county council in the one case, or the county of a city in the other case, in the framing of these schemes.

Sir J. GILMOUR

This covers the county areas as well as the others.

Mr. WESTWOOD

I only raised the question, because I thought the right hon. Gentleman mentioned the large cities. So long as I have that assurance it will be unnecessary for me to move the Amendment which stands in my name—in page 25, line 42, at the end, to insert the words Provided that the administrative scheme, so far as it relates to education, shall be framed by the county council or the town council, as the case may be, in consultation with the existing education authority for the area to which such scheme shall apply. I take it, however, that the Amendment now moved by the Government is carrying out that pledge.

Sir J. GILMOUR

For every one which has to prepare a scheme.

Mr. BENN

The Amendment which I have put down to the right hon. Gentleman's proposed Amendment is to leave out the words "education shall consult with the education authority of the area," and to insert instead thereof the words the said functions may make provision for making applicable to such functions the statutory provisions in force prior to the passing of this Act relating to the audit of the accounts of such council. As a matter of order, perhaps it would be more convenient that I should state briefly the Aberdeen case as regards the Amendment on the Motion to leave out Clause 15. May I ask you, Sir, in advance, if you will put the Amendment to leave out Clause 15, and perhaps I should save time by not moving my Amendment to the present Amendment.

Mr. DEPUTY-SPEAKER

I am afraid I do not quite understand the hon. Gentleman. I understood that he wanted to move the Amendment to the Amendment which stands in his name on page 816.

Mr. BENN

That is so, but there are two ways of doing it. One is by moving to introduce the proposed words here. The other is by raising the point on the Amendment to leave out Clause 15. If I am likely to be so fortunate to catch your eye on the Question to leave out Clause 15, I should be satisfied not to move my Amendment to this Amendment.

Mr. DEPUTY-SPEAKER

I cannot, of course, give the hon. Member any guarantee as to exactly what will happen in the further course of the Debate, but, as far as I can see, there is no reason why he should not have an opportunity, in the ordinary course, of moving to leave out Clause 15, bearing in mind, of course, the guillotine Resolution.

Mr. BENN

Then I do not move my Amendment to the proposed Amendment. Amendment agreed to.

The following Amendment stood upon the Order Paper in the name of the hon. and gallant Member for Ayr Burghs (Lieut.-Colonel MOORE):

In page 24, line 38, at the end, to insert the words: The administrative scheme of a county in which is situated any of the following burghs frequented as holiday resorts, namely, Ardrossan, Dunoon, Gourock, Irvine, North Berwick, Oban, Prestwick, Rothesay, Saltcoats, and Troon shall provide for the delegation by the county council concerned to the town council of any such burgh of their functions relating to public health and classified roads 60 far as the same are exerciseable within such burgh, and that upon such terms and conditions as the county council and the town council concerned may agree and, failing agreement, as the central department may determine.

Lieut.-Colonel MOORE

This Amendment is more or less the same as one that was debated last night and negatived, and, therefore, I do not move it.

Mr. JOHNSTON

We are very glad to hear that, after the speech which the hon. and gallant Member made yesterday.

Sir J. GILMOUR

I beg to move, in page 26, line 21, after the word "newspapers," to insert the words "published or."

This is a consequential Amendment on one previously moved.

Mr. SCRYMGEOUR

Before we leave Clause 14, I want to ask a question on it.

Mr. DEPUTY-SPEAKER

The hon. Member cannot ask a general question on a Clause on the Report stage.

Amendment agreed to.