HC Deb 05 March 1929 vol 226 cc296-9

The rents of all agricultural lands and heritages payable at the time of the passing of the Act shall be deemed to be the standard rents of these subjects, and upon the passing of the Act these standard rents shall automatically be reduced by a sum equal to two and a-half times the rates payable by the proprietor in the first year of the operations of the Act, and such reduced standard rents shall continue to be the rents payable by the tenants and occupiers of the said agricultural lands and heritages thereafter until new rents have been fixed so far as small landholders or statutory small tenants are concerned by the Scottish Land Court under the provisions of the Small Landholders (Scotland) Acts, 1886 to 1919, and so far as other agricultural tenants are concerned by arbitration as provided in the Agricultural Holdings (Scotland) Act, 1923.—[Sir A. Sinclair.]

Brought up, and read the First time.


I beg to move, "That the Clause be read a Second time."


I beg to second the Motion.


I want, first of all, to protest against certain assertions or statements made by the hon. and gallant Gentleman the Member for Caithness (Sir A. Sinclair) with regard to certain statements of mine. I made it quite clear that, if the landowner is the permanent owner of the land and the tenant is only a temporary person, when that tenant goes the benefit goes to the landowner, but an interesing question arises whether, if another tenant comes along, he would get the benefit or not.


He gets it in his rent.


That is a question about which we do not agree. I do not agree with the hon. and gallant Gentleman as to the effect of his Clause. The effect of the Clause would be exactly the same as the effect of the Amendment which the hon. Member for Orkney and Shetland (Sir R. Hamilton) wisely did not move on the Committee stage. The result would be to give full effect to the Socialist Amendment which we discussed in Committee of giving five times the rates payable by the proprietor in the first year of the operation of the Act. That would be the result of this Clause.

It being half-past Seven of the Clock, Mr. SPEAKER proceeded, pursuant to the Order of the House of the 12th December, to put forthwith the Question on the Amendment already proposed from the Chair.

Question put, "That the Clause be read a Second time."

The House divided: Ayes, 115; Noes, 222.

Division No. 251.] AYES. [7.30 p.m.
Adamson, W. M. (Staff., Cannock) Groves, T. Ritson, J.
Alexander, A. V. (Sheffield, Hillsbro') Grundy, T. W. Runciman, Hilda (Cornwall, St. Ives)
Baker, J. (Wolverhampton, Bilston) Hamilton, Sir R. (Orkney & Shetland) Runciman, Rt. Hon. Walter
Barnes, A. Hardie, George D. Saklatvala, Shapurji
Barr, J. Harris, Percy A. Scrymgeour, E.
Batey, Joseph Hayday, Arthur Scurr, John
Bellamy, A. Henderson, T. (Glasgow) Shield, G. W.
Benn, Wedgwood Hirst, G. H. Shiels, Dr. Drummond
Bennett, William (Battersea, South) Hollins, A. Shinwell, E.
Bondfield, Margaret Hore-Belisha, Leslie Short, Alfred (Wednesbury)
Briant, Frank Hudson, J. H. (Huddersfield) Sinclair, Major Sir A. (Caithness)
Broad, F. A. John, William (Rhondda, West) Slesser, Sir Henry H.
Bromfield, William Johnston, Thomas (Dundee) Smith, Ben (Bermondsey. Rotherhithe)
Brown, James (Ayr and Bute) Jones, Morgan (Caerphilly) Smith, Rennie (Penistone)
Buchanan, G. Kelly, W. T. Snell, Harry
Buxton, Rt. Hon. Noel Kennedy, T. Snowden, Rt. Hon. Philip
Cape, Thomas Kirkwood, D. Stamford, T. W.
Charleton, H. C. Lawrence, Susan Stephen, Campbell
Clarke, A. B. Lawson, John James Stewart, J. (St. Rollox)
Cluse, W. S. Lee, F. Strauss, E. A.
Clynes, Rt. Hon. John R. Lowth, T. Sutton, J. E.
Collins, Sir Godfrey (Greenock) Lunn, William Thorne, W. (West Ham, Plaistow)
Compton, Joseph MacDonald, Rt. Hon. J. R. (Aberavon) Thurtle, Ernest
Connolly, M. Mackinder, W. Tinker, John Joseph
Cove, W. G. MacLaren, Andrew Tomlinson, R. P.
Cowan, D. M. (Scottish Universities) Maclean, Nell (Glasgow, Govan) Townend, A. E.
Day, Harry MacNeill-Weir, L. Watson, W. M. (Dunfermline)
Duncan, C. Malone, C. L'Estrange (N'thampton) Webb, Rt. Hon. Sidney
Edwards, C. (Monmouth, Bedwellty) Maxton, James Wellock, Wilfred
Edwards, J. Hugh (Accrington) Montague, Frederick Westwood, J.
England. Colonel A. Morris, R. H. Wheatley, Rt. Hon. J.
Forrest, W. Morrison, R. C. (Tottenham, N.) Whizeley, W.
Gardner, J. P. Mosley, Sir Oswald Wiggins, William Martin
Gibbins, Joseph Murnin, H. Wilson, R. J. (Jarrow)
Gillett, George M. Naylor, T. E. Young, Robert (Lancaster, Newton)
Greenall, T. Oliver, George Harold
Greenwood, A. (Nelson and Colne) Owen, Major G. TELLERS FOR THE AYES.—
Grenfell, D. R. (Glamorgan) Parkinson, John Allen (Wigan) Major-General Sir Robert Hutchison
Griffith, F. Kingsley Pethick-Lawrence, F. W. and Mr. Ernest Brown.
Griffiths, T. (Monmouth. Pontypool) Potts, John S.
Acland-Troyte, Lieut.-Colonel Brass, Captain W. Cochrane, Commander Hon. A. D.
Albery, Irving James Bridgeman, Rt. Hon. William Clive Cohen, Major J. Brunei
Alexander, Sir Wm. (Glasgow, Cent'l) Briggs, J. Harold Conway, Sir W. Martin
Allen, Sir J. Sandeman Briscoe, Richard George Cooper, A. Duff
Amery, Rt. Hon. Leopold C. M. S. Brittain, Sir Harry Cope, Major Sir William
Applin, Colonel R. V. K. Brocklebank, C. E. R. Couper, J. B.
Ashley, Lt.-Col. Rt. Hon. Wilfrid W. Brooke, Brigadier-General C. R. I. Courtauld, Major J. S
Atholl, Duchess of Broun-Lindsay, Major H. Courthope, Colonel Sir G. L.
Atkinson, C. Brown, Col. D. C. (N'th'l'd., Hexham) Cowan, Sir Wm. Henry (Islington, N)
Baldwin, Rt. Hon. Stanley Brown, Brig.-Gen. H. C. (Berks, Newb'y) Croit, Brigadier-General Sir H.
Banks, Sir Reginald Mitchell Buckingham, Sir H. Crookshank, Cpt. H. (Lindsey, Gainsbro)
Barclay-Harvey, C. M. Bullock, Captain M. Dalkeith, Earl of
Beamish, Rear-Admiral T. P. H. Burman, J. B. Davies, Sir Thomas (Cirencester)
Beckett, Sir Gervase (Leeds, N.) Burton. Colonel H. W. Davies, Dr. Vernon
Berry, Sir George Cassels, J. D. Davison, Sir W. H. (Kensington, S.)
Bethel, A. Cautley, Sir Henry S. Eden, Captain Anthony
Betterton. Henry B. Cayzer, Sir C. (Chester, City) Edmondson, Major A. J.
Sevan, S. J. Cayzer, Maj. Sir Herbt. R. (Prtsmth, S.) Elliot, Major Walter E.
Birchall, Major J. Dearman Cecil, Rt. Hon. Sir Evelyn (Aston) Ellis, R. G.
Bird, E. R. (Yorks, W. R., Skipton) Chamberlain, Rt. Hon. N. (Ladywood) Erskine, Lord (Somerset Weston-s.-M.)
Boothby, R. J. G. Chapman, Sir S. Fairfax, Captain J. G.
Bourne, Captain Robert Croft Churchill, Rt. Hon. Winston Spencer Falle, Sir Bertram G.
Bowyer, Capt. G. E. W. Clayton, G. C. Fanshawe, Captain G. D.
Braithwaite, Major A. N. Cobb, Sir Cyril Fermoy, Lord
Fielden, E. B. Little, Or. E. Graham Ropner, Major L.
Ford, Sir P. J. Locker-Lampson, Rt. Hon. Godfrey Ruggles-Brise, Lieut.-Colonel E. A.
Foster, Sir Harry S. Loder, J. de V. Russell, Alexander West (Tynemouth)
Fremantle, Lieut.-Colonel Francis E. Looker, Herbert William Rye, F. G.
Gadle, Lieut.-Col. Anthony Lougher, Sir Lewis Salmon, Major I.
Galbraith, J. F. W. Luce, Major-Gen. Sir Richard Harman Samuel, A. M. (Surrey. Farnham)
Ganzoni, Sir John Lumley, L. R. Samuel, Samuel (W'dsworth, Putney)
Gates, Percy MacAndrew, Major Charles Glen Sandeman, N. Stewart
Gault, Lieut.-Col. Andrew Hamilton Macdonald, Capt. P. D. (I. of W.) Sassoon, Sir Philip Albert Gusteve D.
Gilmour, Lt.-Col. Rt. Hon. Sir John Macdonald, R. (Glasgow, Cathcart) Savery, S. S.
Graham, Fergus (Cumberland, N.) McLean, Major A. Shaw, Lt.-Col. A. D. Mcl. (Renfrew, W.)
Grant, Sir J. A. Macmillan, Captain H. Simms, Dr. John M. (Co. Down)
Grattan-Doyle, Sir N. Macqulsten, F. A. Skelton, A. N.
Greaves-Lord, Sir Walter MacRobert, Alexander M. Smith-Carington, Neville W.
Grenfell, Edward C. (City of London) Manningham-Buller, Sir Mervyn Smithers, Waldron
Gretton, Colonel Rt. Hon. John Margesson, Captain D. Somerville, A. A. (Windsor)
Grotrian, H. Brent Marriott, Sir J. A. R. Southby, Commander A. R. J.
Guinness, Rt. Hon. Walter E. Mason, Colonel Glyn K. Spender-Clay, Colone H.
Hall, Capt. W. D'A. (Brecon & Rad.) Milne, J. S. Wardlaw Steel, Major Samuel Strang
Hannon, Patrick Joseph Henry Mitchell, S. (Lanark, Lanark) Storry-Deans, R.
Harland, A. Mitchell. Sir W. Lane (Streatham) Stuart, Crichton-, Lord C.
Harrison, G. J. C. Moore, Lieut.-Colonel T. C. R. (Ayr) Stuart, Hon. J. (Moray and Nairn)
Harvey, G. (Lambeth, Kennington) Moore, Sir Newton J. Styles. Captain H. Walter
Harvey, Major S. E. (Devon, Totnes) Moore-Brabazon, Lieut.-Col. J. T. C Sueter, Rear-Admin Murray Fraser
Headlam, Lieut.-Colonel C. M. Morrison-Bell, Sir Arthur Clive Sugden, Sir Wilfrid
Henderson, Lieut.-Col. Sir Vivian Murchison, Sir Kenneth Templeton, W. P.
Heneage, Lieut.-Col. Arthur P. Nall, Colonel Sir Joseph Thompson, Luke (Sunderland)
Henn, Sir Sydney H. Nelson, Sir Frank Thomson, Sir Frederick
Hennessy, Major Sir G. R. J. Neville, Sir Reginald J. Thomson, Rt. Hon. Sir W. Mitchell
Herbert, S. (York, N. R., Scar. & Wh'by) Newman. Sir R. H. S. O. L. (Exeter) Turton, Sir Edmund Russborough
Hills, Major John Waller Newton, Sir D. G. C. (Cambridge) Vaughan-Morgan, Col. Sir K. P.
Hilton, Cecil Nicholson, O. (Westminster) Waddington, R.
Hoare, Lt.-Col. Rt. Hon. Sir S. J. G. Nicholson, Col. Rt. Hn. W. G. (Ptrsf'l'd.) Wallace, Captain D. E.
Hope, Capt. A. O. J. (Warw'k, Nun.) Nield, Rt. Hon. Sir Herbert Ward, Lt.-Col. A. L. (Kingston-on-Hull)
Hope, Sir Harry (Forfar) Nuttall, Ellis Warner. Brigadier-General W. W.
Hopkins, J. W. W. Oman, Sir Charles William C. Waterhouse. Captain Charles
Hopkinson, A. (Lancaster, Mossley) Ormsby-Gore, Rt. Hon. William Watson, Rt. Hon. W. (Carlisle)
Home, Rt. Hon. Sir Robert S. Percy, Lord Eustace (Hastings) Watts, Sir Thomas
Hudson, Capt. A. U. M. (Hackney, N.) Perring, Sir William George Wells, S. R.
Hume, Sir G. H. Peto, Sir Basil E. (Devon, Barnstaple) White, Lieut.-Col. Mr G. Dairymple
Hunter-Weston, Lt.-Gen. Sir Aylmer Peto, G. (Somerset. Frome) Williams, A. M. (Cornwall, Northern)
Hurd, Percy A. Pilcher, G. Williams. Herbert G. (Reading)
Hurst, Sir Gerald Pownall, Sir Assheton Wilson, R. R. (Stafford, Lichfield)
Iveagh, Countess of Price, Major C. W. M. Withers, John James
Jackson, Sir H. (Wandsworth, Cen'l) Raine, Sir Walter Wood, Sir S. Hill (High Peak)
James, Lieut.-Colonel Hon. Cuthbert Ramsden, E. Wright, Brig-General W. D.
Jones, Sir G. W. H. (Stoke New'gton) Remer, J. R. Yerburgh, Major Robert D. T.
Kindersley, Major G. M. Roberts, E. H. G. (Flint) Young, Rt. Hon. Sir Hilton (Norwich)
King, Commodore Henry Douglas Roberts, Sir Samuel (Hereford)
Kinloch-Cooke, Sir Clement Robinson, Sir T. (Lane, Stretford) TELLERS FOR THE NOES.—
Lamb, J. Q. Rodd, Rt. Hon. Sir James Rennell Major the Marquess of Titchfield
and Sir Victor Warrender.