§ 47. Lieut.-Commander KENWORTHYasked the Prime Minister whether he is now in a position to make a statement with regard to naval shipbuilding?
§ The PRIME MINISTERI am now in a position to make a statement of the immediate intentions of the Government regarding the Naval building programme. The Government's general position is that the defence of a country must be devised with two main considerations in view: First, the chances of the defences having to be used; then, the efficiency and economy shown in their magnitude and character. The Government have kept in view the changes in policy and in the problem of national security effected by the Peace Pact, if that Pact is to be made an effective influence in international relations. To make it so is the controlling purpose of the Government, and a systematic policy is being developed, which will take a little time to complete, to carry out that intention.
1305 As is well known, in the midst of the multifarious concerns which the formation of a new Government entails and the specially pressing and complicated nature of our tasks, conversations have been actively carried on between the United States and ourselves for the purpose of opening the way for an agreement on naval matters which hitherto have defied a settlement. By a happy coincidence our assumption of office corresponded in time with the arrival in this country of the new American Ambassador, General Dawes, who has come here charged by the President of the United States of America with a mission for preparing the ground for an International Agreement on the Reduction and Limitation of Naval Armaments. Already the whole field of these differences with the United States has been surveyed, and the two Governments have made a fresh start on their solution. We have agreed upon the principle of parity; we have agreed that, without in any way departing from the conditions of parity, a measure of elasticity can be allowed so as to meet the peace requirements of the two nations. We have determined that we shall not allow technical points to override the great public issues involved in our being able to come to a settlement. And so soon as the rising, of this House releases me from its day-to-day work, I propose to make this matter my chief concern until an issue is reached. A visit to the President of the United States is now the subject of conversation so that it may take place when it will be most helpful to promote the cordial relations of our two countries, and in particular advance the ends of disarmament and peace which we hold in common. It has to be fitted in with certain international conferences, but October at present looks a likely month.
A Committee to co-ordinate the three Services for the purposes of Cabinet consideration has been set up, but as that co-ordination is not comprehensive enough to meet the requirements of State policy, the Foreign Office is also represented upon it. This will enable us to systematise our work. In the opinion of this Committee, the general outlook is such as to justify a review of our own programme. Our predecessors did this from time to time as the outlook brightened. Therefore, after a thorough examination of our naval position, and 1306 not only as a proof of our own sincerity but as a duty imposed upon us to guard the expenditure of national money, we have decided as follows:
To suspend all work on the cruisers "Surrey" and "Northumberland."
To cancel the Submarine Depôt Ship "Maidstone."
To cancel two contract submarines.
To slow down dockyard work on other naval construction.
As regards the 1929–30 programme, in any event no commitments would have to be entered into before the autumn, and no steps will be taken to proceed with it until the matter has received further consideration.
The Government, of course, recognises that a reduction in the Naval building programme must have a direct effect on employment in the dockyards, but I am glad to say that as a result of special rearrangements suggested by the Admiralty, it is hoped to be able to secure the absorption of a large amount of labour which would otherwise be discharged from the Royal Dockyards. The representatives of dockyard labour will at once be consulted.
We are indebted to the Board of Admiralty for the help which they have rendered, and I desire to state that, having expressed their technical view on the minimum armaments they consider to be necessary, they have furnished us with loyal help in achieving our object with the least possible dislocation and hardship.
I ought to add, in order to make the statement complete, that it is recognised by all the Powers concerned that a preliminary agreement on Anglo-American differences is essential to a general agreement on naval building, and the Governments of the Powers represented at Washington, 1921–22, have been informed of the conversations. So soon as the way is cleared, they will be invited to a preliminary Conference so that we may all together try to come to an agreement of a comprehensive kind. The final agreement would be ratified at a place which, I hope, will by common consent be chosen by the United States as a recognition of the splendid part played by its President in these transactions, and then reported to the Preparatory Commission of the League as a contribution to its work.
1307 If these intentions are fulfilled, the request of the Chairman of the Preparatory Commission on Disarmament made at Geneva on 15th March, 1928, that the Powers should make an attempt to agree amongst themselves will be accomplished, and we shall be in a position to pursue with that Commission the difficult but essential problems of how to reduce other forms of armaments in accordance with the pledge given by the Allies at Versailles when imposing disarmament on Germany and its associated nations, and in pursuance of the Pact of Peace. To that His Majesty's Government will direct their thoughts and their energies, in cooperation with other nations, so soon as this more immediate work on naval agreement has been finished. A general Disarmament Conference will then be possible. I am anxious that the House should not minimise the difficulties in our way, nor the time that will be required for the negotiations, but they may be assured that it will be our care to make our own policy clear and our desire to put our energies into a settlement without unnecessary delay.
Mr. GUINNESSThe right hon. Gentleman mentioned that the Board of Admiralty had laid down certain minimum requirements, and had then given their loyal co-operation in the policy of the Government. Were those minimum requirements as stated by the Government's professional advisers fully met by the reduced programme which the Government propose to carry out?
§ The PRIME MINISTERI have not the least doubt whatever that when the agreement with the United States has been reached, the minimum requirements put up to us will be adequately covered.
§ Mr. CHURCHILLWill the right hon. Gentleman have the goodness to answer the direct question put by my right hon. Friend?
§ The PRIME MINISTERNobody knows better than the right hon. Gentleman that the Government are responsible for their policy, and when I say that, I hope no right hon. Gentleman will say that I am shirking an answer. Only such an answer can be given in the interests of the nation.
Mr. GUINNESSThe right hon. Gentleman mentioned certain specific minimum requirements. Can he tell us whether the professional advisers of the Government are at the present stage satisfied that the conditions laid down will achieve those minimum requirements?
§ The PRIME MINISTERThe minimum requirements are going to be stated finally in whatever agreement is come to with the United States, and until that agreement is reported or otherwise—I hope reported—nothing can be said about what the ultimate minimum may be.
Mr. LLOYD GEORGEI should like to ask the Prime Minister whether the Government propose to endeavour to effect an arrangement with the United States before they approach the other Powers. Do they propose, first of all, to come to an agreement with the United States of America and then have a conference of all the naval Powers?
§ The PRIME MINISTERMy right hon. Friend knows the difficulty of putting one thing in front of another. As I have said—I hope the significance of my words has not been missed—that as we are going on with our conversations we are reporting the conversations—the effect of the conversations, and the general result of the conversations—to the Powers that will ultimately be concerned.
Mr. LLOYD GEORGEI would like to ask the right hon. Gentleman this, because I think it is very important. I hope that the Government are keeping in touch with the other naval Powers throughout the whole of these discussions, so that there shall be no suggestion of a one-sided arrangement.
§ The PRIME MINISTERI think I can go thus far, because it is always difficult to be pressed too closely in these very delicate matters, but I can say I have personally seen the Ambassadors of the other Powers concerned.
§ Lieut.-Commander KENWORTHYWill it be convenient for my right hon. Friend to say whether, as the original breakdown of negotiations occurred between ourselves and America in 1927, we have not been directly invited to try to settle satisfactorily with America the then points of difference?
§ Mr. LAMBERTWill the right hon. Gentleman say whether a decision has been arrived at with regard to the Singapore Base?
§ The PRIME MINISTERIn the large survey, that has been included.
§ Colonel GRETTONMay I ask the Prime Minister whether the House will be afforded an opportunity before it rises of discussing the statement, especially the naval reduction? I ask that question because we are to have a Debate on Friday on Egypt, and other matters of discussion have already been promised for that day.
§ The PRIME MINISTERI was going to say that the ordinary opportunity will be afforded. I shall be very pleased to be here on Friday, but on purely Admiralty matters my right hon. Friend the First Lord of the Admiralty will be here to reply to any questions. If policy questions are to be put on Friday, I shall answer them.
§ Colonel GRETTONAlready matters of great importance are indicated to be debated on Friday. Cannot the Prime Minister afford us some other opportunity before rising?
§ Mr. HORE-BELISHAOn another aspect of this question, may I ask whether any precise figures were laid before the right hon. Gentleman before he came to this decision as to the exact effect this would have on employment in the dockyards, and whether, seeing that this decision is bound in years to come to have a very serious effect on the whole standing of the Royal dockyards, he has made any arrangements whatever for providing alternative work?
§ The PRIME MINISTERWe had figures, and they were considered, not merely as figures, but as human quantities and qualities by a committee that was specially appointed to deal with the matter and to handle the matter at the Admiralty and in the dockyards.
§ Mr. HORE-BELISHACan the right hon. Gentleman give the House those figures, and, seeing that he takes the human view of this question, is he not aware that this question will be very gravely received in the dockyard towns, which are desirous of knowing what their future is to be?
Viscountess ASTORDoes the right hon. Gentleman not think that this momentous decision he has made towards peace is far greater than any other question like unemployment?
§ Sir B. FALLEWill the delay in the construction of the cruisers have its effect on the numbers of personnel in the Navy?
§ The PRIME MINISTEROf course, let us assume that the worst comes to the worst; it merely pushes the completion of the ships back some months. If the arrangement is come to, and all these minimum requirements are properly provided, it will mean that the work will not be proceeded with at all; but I assume that the House and the country are in favour of very active steps to secure peace.
§ Sir B. FALLEBut the Navy is being recruited day by day.
§ Major COLFOXIs it fair to say that, arising out of the answer given by the Prime Minister to the supplementary questions asked by my right hon. Friend, the Government have decided already to reduce the Navy below the safety minimum—[HON. MEMBER: "No!"]—in the view of the professional advisers, whereas that minimum may, perhaps, not be below the standard when agreement, which has not yet been arrived at, has been arrived at, and therefore the Government have already decided to reduce the standard below the safety level?
§ The PRIME MINISTERI want to make it perfectly clear that the Government have come to this conclusion in a full belief, taking the state of the world to-day, the prospects of peace, that the Navy as it is left after this announcement is perfectly capable of doing its duty.
§ Mr. LEESIn view of the fact that there are many matters of real importance in which the House is interested, why should not this House, instead of becoming unemployed next month, continue to sit on to deal with this business?
§ Mr. SHAKESPEARECan the Prime Minister give the House any estimate of the savings to the taxpayer by this proposal?
§ The PRIME MINISTERWe have also gone into that, although it was not primarily for savings, but we believe that 1311 when we have found out what the net savings are—it is rather difficult to find them out in a great hurry—but when we have found out what the net savings are, they will not be inconsiderable.
§ Mr. DIXEYA very important suggestion has been put to the right hon. Gentleman by one of his own supporters, namely, that in view of the importance of this matter, it would be proper for the Government to lengthen the Session of Parliament to enable us to discuss this matter.