HC Deb 18 July 1929 vol 230 cc629-32
Sir A. SINCLAIR

May I ask the Prime Minister what is going to happen to the Bill for the amendment of the Scottish Local Government Act?

The PRIME MINISTER

Yes. I expected that there was going to be a question about that matter. I reminded the House yesterday of the purpose for which this Bill was printed and circulated and the only conditions under which it could go through its further stages. I have made inquiries as to its chances in relation to the business which must be finished this month. I have also had representations of both sides of Scottish opinion. With very much regret, I see no prospect of this Bill passing all its stages in this House and in another place, in time to be effective and, so, I do not propose to ask the House to discuss it further.

Miss LEE

May I ask for guidance in this matter? Is there any insurmountable reason why this House should not go on a little while longer to consider this Bill. Profound disappointment and indeed indignation will be caused in Scotland if it is dropped at this stage, especially as many of us on these benches felt that we had a full assurance in this House that this matter would, above all others, be given consideration before the House rose?

Mr. DUNCAN MILLAR

Is it not the the case that on Wednesday last the Prime Minister gave this House an undertaking that he was going to save the education portion of the Bill, and is the right hon. Gentleman aware that his action is going to cause great disappointment to the authorities and the people in Scotland who were counting upon what he said?

Miss LEE

May I have an answer to my question?

The PRIME MINISTER

May I, at the earliest opportunity, say that the description of what I said in this House last week is most inaccurate? I said exactly the opposite. I said that the Bill would be printed and circulated so that hon. Members might see the best that could be done in the circumstances, and one of the facts that we took into consideration was that of representations from public authorities who complained about the dislocation that would take place in administration if the Bill were put through. I am not in a position to say, and I am not saying, whether that representation was a sound one or an unsound one, but, in the consideration of the matter, all that had to be faced in considering whether we could get this Bill through in time. It was not a question of getting it through at any time. That was a consideration which we had to face.

Mr. MACPHERSON

Are we to understand from my right hon. Friend that there will be no further inquiry into Scottish local self-government or into Scottish local government?

The PRIME MINISTER

That part of my statement (which was a definite statement) remains.

Sir A. SINCLAIR

If the inquiry is going to take place in October, surely it will be a post-mortem?

The PRIME MINISTER

In any event, four-fifths will be.

Mr. HARDIE

Is the Prime Minister aware that this was a major subject as far as the last Election was concerned, and, further, that all considerations he may have to hear do not apply to the decision that was given on the voting day in May last? Further, is he aware that the Liberal party gave no indication as to their attitude, and came to a decision only the day before yesterday? [HON. MEMBERS: "No!"] It the Liberal party now give an assurance that they will do their best to continue this Session until the Scottish Bill is seen through, will the Prime Minister then consider continuing the matter further?

Mr. MACPHERSON

On a point of Order. With reference to the statement that has just been made by the hon. Member for Springburn (Mr. Hardie), may I, on behalf of my colleagues, say that the statement he has just made is quite untrue?

Mr. SULLIVAN

I was one of those who believed the statement that the Prime Minister made in this matter. I believe that the Government—

Mr. SPEAKER

The hon. Member is not asking a question.

Mr. BUCHANAN

May I ask the Prime Minister this question? Were not all the relevant facts, the decision with reference to this Bill and the approximate date fixed for the Adjournment of the House, considered, and must not these facts have been present in his mind when he made the announcement concerning the further progress of the Bill?

Miss LEE

Am I out of order in pressing for an answer to my question?

Mr. MACLEAN

On a point of Order. I have risen, Mr. Speaker, as you have noticed, on several occasions, and on each occasion you have called someone else who has only risen for the first time.

Mr. SPEAKER

Mr. Westwood!

Mr. WESTWOOD

May I ask the Prime Minister whether he was not led to understand that there was unanimity as far as Scottish Labour Members were concerned, and that some of our colleagues then gave him different information behind our backs?

The PRIME MINISTER

I am afraid that that is one of those statements that are so well typified every morning in the newspapers, which tell those delightful stories about us, not one of which has any foundation in fact. As far as the Bill is concerned and the action I have taken, if I had foreseen the circumstances when I made my speech in Glasgow which laid down the policy as far as I could speak for the party, the indications I made in that speech of what could be done turned out to be exactly what has happened. I stated that there was a possibility of education being separated from the rest of the Act, but that I was not sure and would look into it, and if anything could be done we should do it. As far as the Act itself is concerned, it could not be annulled or changed, but as regards the whole of the altered Scottish local government machinery, the Labour party, if it had the enjoyment of a Parliamentary life—and by that I meant the life of a full Parliament—would certainly before going to the country have their inquiries completed and take action.

Mr. MACPHERSON

I beg to ask leave to move the Adjournment of the House for the purpose of discussing a definite matter of urgent public importance, namely, "the failure of the Government to suspend the operation of the Local Government (Scotland) Act, 1929, or to proceed with its Bill to amend the said Act."

The pleasure of the House not having been signified, Mr. SPEAKER called on those Members who supported the Motion to rise, in their places, and fewer than 40 Members having accordingly risen, the House proceeded to the Orders of the Day.

Mr. MACLEAN

On a point of Order. I have been trying for quite a time to be able to catch your eye, Mr. Speaker, in order to put a question to the Prime Minister on a matter which has just been closed, I take it, by the count made by you, and I wish to give notice, therefore, that I shall raise this matter at eleven o'clock to-night on the Motion for the Adjournment.