§ The PRIME MINISTERI beg to move,
That the proceedings on Government Business this day and on any Private Business set down for consideration at half-past Seven of the clock this evening, by direction of the Chairman of Ways and Means, be exempted from the provisions of the Standing Order (Sittings of the House) and, notwithstanding anything in Standing Order No. 8, any such Private Business may be taken after half-past Nine of the clock.I am very sorry to have to move this Resolution, but I want to assure the House that the Resolution sounds much more formidable than my intention is. The first part provides that the Eleven o'clock Rule shall be suspended for Government business. It is not our intention to have a late siding upon that. If hon. Members will look at the Order Paper they will find that the second, third and fourth Orders are more or less consequential upon Resolutions that have been passed by the House after very considerable discussion. What we think is that if a matter of only 10 minutes or so stood between the House and the giving of effect to these Bills, it would be a great pity to miss their passage by such a very small margin of time. The suspension of the Eleven o'clock Rule means nothing but that a very short and very reasonable time should be taken in order to get these things advanced. With reference to the other part of the Resolution, it is, as all Members know, 445 to enable a second private Bill to be brought before the House. New Members are not aware, perhaps, of the provisions of Standing Order No. 8. The germane provision is that no opposed private business other than that then under consideration shall be taken after 9.30 p.m. There are two private business Bills down to-day, the London County Council (Co-ordination of Passenger Traffic) Bill and the London Electric Railway Companies (Co-ordination of Passenger Traffic) Bill. I think it would be for the convenience of the House if both the Bills could be settled to-night The Debote on the first Bill is very likely to last beyond the prescribed time, and that means that it would be impossible to move the second Bill. That is the only purpose of the Resolution.
§ Mr. SPEAKERI did not interrupt the right hon. Gentleman, but I am bound to point out that this Resolution is in two parts, and the first part is not debatable.
§ Sir AUSTEN CHAMBERLAINOn a point of Order. Is it in order to put two propositions in one Resolution, one of which is debatable and the other is not, under the Rules of the House?
§ Mr. SPEAKERThe same sort of Motion has been put down on many other occasions, but has frequently been divided and put as two separate questions upon a desire being expressed that that should be done.
§ Mr. S. BALDWINWe on this side of the House are in a little difficulty. We have no objection to the suspension of the Eleven o'clock Rule in so far as Private Business is concerned, but we do object to the suspension for Government business, because we think it is a little early in the Session, and considering how helpful we have been to the Government. We seek guidance from you, Mr. Speaker, as to how we should express our view.
§ Mr. E. BROWNIs it not possible to put the Motion in two parts?
§ Mr. SPEAKERIt is quite possible. If this is a request that the Motion be moved in two parts, of course I should accept it, but that does not get over the difficulty of the first half of the Motion not being debatable.
Commander Sir BOLTON EYRES MONSELLMay we ask the Government to put the Motion in two parts? We do not want to debate it, of course. We wish to have part of the Motion, but not the other part, and we are obviously put in a very great difficulty if the Government do not move it in two parts, as we have often done at the wish of hon. and right hon. Members opposite.
§ Mr. SPEAKERIf I am asked to divide it into two parts, I will do so.
Question put,
That the proceedings on Government Business this day and on any Private Business set down for consideration at half-past Seven of the clock this evening, by direction of the Chairman of Ways and Means, be exempted from the provisions of the Standing Order (Sittings of the House),
§ Mr. E. BROWN rose—
§ Mr. SPEAKERMembers did not declare the Question carried, and I ordered the Lobby to be cleared; but if hon. Members do not agree when a Question is put, they should challenge it more emphatically.
§ Sir W. LANE MITCHELL (Seated and covered)On a point of Order. Were the two Motions not put together?
§ Mr. SPEAKERThe Motion is divided into two parts. I put the first down to the words "Sittings of the House."
§ Colonel GRETTON(Seated and covered): I would point out that the object of dividing the Motion was to decide the question whether Government business should be continued after Eleven o'clock, separately from the question whether exemption should be given to Private Business. The case would be met if the Motion were put in this way:
That the proceedings on Government Business this day be exempted from the provisions of the Standing Order (Sittings of the House).Then the second Question would relate to Private Business only.
§ Mr. SPEAKERThe second Motion then would begin:
That the proceedings on any Private Business set down for consideration at half-past Seven of the clock this evening, by direction of the Chairman of Ways and Means, be exempted from the provisions of the Standing Order (Sittings of the House),and so on.
§ Mr. W. THORNEThe point I want to raise—[HON. MEMBERS: "Sit down!" and "Hat!"] The Motion has not been put, and therefore I can stand. The question I want to put, Mr. Speaker, is that when you first put the Motion you asked for the Ayes and Noes and there were no Noes. Therefore, in my opinion at least, the Motion was carried.
§ Sir A. CHAMBERLAIN (Seated and covered)May I say that I challenged the Question when you put it the first time. Our desire is to divide that part of the Motion which deals with Government Business from that part which deals with Private Business. We desire to support the part which deals with Private Business and to vote against that part—and that part only—which deals with Government Business. The question I submit to you is whether you can put the Motion in so far as it relates to Government Business separately from the Motion in so far as it relates to Private Business.
Mr. MACLEANI want to ask—[HON. MEMBERS: "Hat!" and "Order!"] There is no occasion for a hat, as the Motion has not been put. I want to ask you, Mr. Speaker—[Interruption.] Do I understand you wish me to resume my seat? [Resuming his seat.] I want to put to you—[HON. MEMBERS: "Hat!"]
| Division No. 3.] | AYES. | [4.4 p.m. |
| Adamson, Rt. Hon. W. (Fife, West) | Buchanan, G. | George, Rt. Hon. D. Lloyd (Car'vn) |
| Adamson, W. M. (Staff., Cannock) | Burgess, F. G. | George, Major G. Lloyd (Pembroke) |
| Addison, Rt. Hon. Dr. Christopher | Buxton, C. R. (Yorks. W. R. Elland) | George, Megan Lloyd (Anglesea) |
| Alexander, Rt. Hon. A. V. (Hillsbro') | Buxton, Rt. Hon. Noel (Norfolk, N.) | Gibbins, Joseph |
| Alpass, J. H. | Caine, Derwent Hall- | Gillett, George M. |
| Ammon, Charles George | Cameron, A. G. | Glassey, A. E. |
| Angell, Norman | Cape, Thomas | Gossling, A. G. |
| Arnott, John | Carter, W. (St. Pancras, S. W.) | Gould, F. |
| Attlee, Clement Richard | Charleton, H. C. | Granville, E. |
| Ayles, Walter | Chater, Daniel | Greenwood, Rt. Hon. A. (Colne) |
| Baker, John (Wolverhampton, Bilston) | Church, Major A. G. | Grenfell, D. R. (Glamorgan) |
| Baker, Walter (Bristol, E.) | Clarke, J. S. | Griffith, F. Kingsley (Middlesbro'W.) |
| Barnes, Alfred John | Climle, R. | Griffiths, T. (Monmouth, Pontypool) |
| Barr, James | Cluse, W. S. | Grundy, Thomas W. |
| Batey, Joseph | Cocks, Frederick Seymour | Hall, F. (York, W. R., Normanton) |
| Beckett, John (Camberwell, Peckham) | Compton, Joseph | Hall, G. H. (Merthyr Tydvil) |
| Bellamy, Albert | Cove, William G. | Hall, Capt. W. P. (Portsmouth, C.) |
| Benn, Rt. Hon. Wedgwood | Cowan, D. M. | Hamilton, Mary Agnes (Blackburn) |
| Bennett, Captain E. N. (Cardiff, Central) | Daggar, George | Hamilton, Sir R. (Orkney & Zetland) |
| Bennett, William (Battersea, South) | Dalton, Hugh | Harbord, A. |
| Benson, G. | Day, Harry | Hardie, George D. |
| Bentham, Dr. Ethel | Denman, Hon. R. D. | Harris, Percy A. |
| Bevan, Aneurin (Ebbw Vale) | Dickson, T. | Hastings, Dr. Somerville |
| Bondfield, Rt. Hon. Margaret | Ede, James Chuter | Haycock, A. W. |
| Bowerman, Rt. Hon. Charles W. | Edge, Sir William | Hayes, John Henry |
| Broad, Francis Alfred | Edwards, C. (Monmouth, Bedwellty) | Henderson, Right Hon. A. (Burnley) |
| Brockway, A. Fenner | Egan, W. H. | Henderson, Arthur, Junr. (Cardiff, S.) |
| Brooke, W. | Eimley, Viscount | Henderson, W. W. (Middx., Enfield) |
| Brothers, M. | England, Colonel A. | Herriotts, J. |
| Brown, Ernest (Leith) | Evans, Capt. Ernest (Welsh Univ.) | Hirst, G. H. (York, W. R., Wentworth) |
| Brown, James (Ayr and Bute) | Freeman, Peter | Hirst, W. (Bradford, South) |
| Brown, W. J. (Wolverhampton, West) | Gardner, B. W. (West Ham, Upton) | Hoffman, P. C. |
§ Mr. SPEAKERI have come to the conclusion that a great fuss is being made about nothing, and that the best thing to do is to ignore the Question as first put and the Division that was called, so the hon. Member can stand without a hat.
Mr. MACLEANI am glad you have shown hon. Members on the other side that I know points of Order, and how to conduct myself in this House. I want to ask you whether it is not the case that when you put the Question there was a very feeble response on the other side, and that you accepted the Motion on the Paper? Therefore, the proceedings of the last 20 minutes have been entirely out of order, because the Motion on the Paper was carried.
§ Mr. SPEAKERI was asked to divide the Motion in two, which I did in the ordinary way, but I found there was a misunderstanding. Because of this misunderstanding, I made a mistake, and, when I have made a mistake, I always acknowledge it.
§
Question put,
That the proceedings on Government Business this day be exempted from the provisions of the Standing Order (Sittings of the House).
§ The House divided: Aves, 269; Noes, 155.
451| Hopkin, Daniel | Morris, Rhys Hopkins | Sitch, Charles H. |
| Horrabin, J. F. | Morris-Jones, Dr. J. H. (Denbigh) | Smith, Ben (Bermondsey, Rotherhithe) |
| Hudson, James H. (Huddersfield) | Morrison, Herbert (Hackney, South) | Smith, Frank (Nuneaton) |
| Hunter, Dr. Joseph | Morrison, Robert C. (Tottenham, N.) | Smith, H. B. Lees (Keighley) |
| Hutchison, Maj.-Gen. Sir R. | Mort, D. L. | Smith, Rennle (Penistone) |
| Isaacs, George | Moses, J. J. H. | Smith, Tom (Pontefract) |
| Jenkins, W. (Glamorgan, Neath) | Mosley, Lady C. (Stoke-on-Trent) | Smith, W. R. (Norwich) |
| John, William (Rhondda, West) | Mosley, Sir Oswald (Smethwick) | Snell, Harry |
| Johnston, Thomas | Muff, G. | Snowden, Thomas (Accrington) |
| Jones, F. Llewellyn (Flint) | Murnin, Hugh | Sorensen, R. |
| Jones, Henry Haydn (Merioneth) | Noel Baker, P. J. | Stamford, Thomas W. |
| Jones, J. J. (West Ham, Silvertown) | Oldfield, J. R. | Stephen, Campbell |
| Jones, Rt. Hon. Leif (Camborne) | Oliver, George Harold (Ilkeston) | Stewart, J. (St. Rollox) |
| Jowett, Rt. Hon. F. W. | Owen, Major G. (Carnarvon) | Strachey, E. J. St. Loe |
| Kelly, W. T. | Owen, H. F. (Hereford) | Strauss, G. R. |
| Kennedy, Thomas | Palin, John Henry | Sutton, J. E. |
| Kenwortny, Lt.-Com. Hon. Joseph M. | Paling, Wilfrid | Taylor, R. A. (Lincoln) |
| Kinley, J. | Palmer, E. T. | Taylor, W. B. (Norfolk, S. W.) |
| Kirkwood, D. | Perry, S. F. | Thomas, Rt. Hon. J. H. (Derby) |
| Knight, Holford | Peters, Dr. Sidney John | Thorne, W. (West Ham, Plaistow) |
| Lambert, Rt. Hon. George (S. Molton) | Pethick-Lawrence, F. W. | Thurtle, Ernest |
| Lansbury, Rt. Hon. George | Phillips, Dr. Marlon | Tillett, Ben |
| Lathan, G. | Picton-Turberville, E. | Tinker, John Joseph |
| Law, Albert (Bolton) | Pole, Major D. G. | Toole, Joseph |
| Law, A. (Rosendale) | Ponsonby, Arthur | Tout, W. J. |
| Lawrence, Susan | Potts, John S. | Townend, A. E. |
| Lawson, John James | Pybus, Percy John | Trevelyan, Rt. Hon. Sir Charles |
| Lawther, W. (Barnard Castle) | Quibell, D. F. K. | Vaughan, D. J. |
| Leach, W. | Ramsay, T. B. Wilson | Viant, S. P. |
| Lee, Frank (Derby, N. E.) | Rathbone, Eleanor | Walkden, A. G. |
| Lee, Jennie (Lanark, Northern) | Raynes, W. R. | Walker, J. |
| Lees, J. | Richardson, R. (Houghton-le Spring) | Wallhead, Richard C. |
| Lloyd, C. Ellis | Riley, F. F. (Stockton-on-Tees) | Watkins, F. C. |
| Longbottom, A. W. | Ritson, J. | Watson, W. M. (Dunfermline) |
| Longden, F. | Roberts, Rt. Hon. F. O.(W. Bromwich) | Watts-Morgan, Lt.-Cot. D. (Rhondda) |
| Lovat-Fraser, J. A. | Robinson, Sir T. (Lancs, Stretford) | Wedgwood, Rt. Hon. Josiah |
| Lunn, William | Romerll, H. G. | Wellock, Wilfred |
| Macdonald, Gordon (Ince) | Rosbotham, D. S. T. | Welsh, James (Paisley) |
| MacDonald, Rt. Hon. J. R. (Seaham) | Rowson, Guy | Westwood, Joseph |
| MacDonald, Malcolm (Bassetlaw) | Salter, Dr. Alfred | Wheatley, Rt. Hon. J. |
| MacNeill-Weir, L. | Samuel, Rt. Hon. Sir H. (Darwen) | White, H. G. |
| McElwee, A. | Sanders, W. S. | Whiteley, Wilfrid (Birm., Ladywood) |
| McEntee, V. L. | Sandham, E. | Whiteley, William (Blaydon) |
| Mackinder, W. | Sawyer, G. F. | Wilkinson, Ellen C. |
| Maclean, Nell (Glasgow, Govan) | Scott, James | Williams, Dr. J. H. (Llanelly) |
| McShane, John James | Scurr, John | Williams, T. (York, Don Valley) |
| Malone, C. L'Estrange (N'thampton) | Sexton, James | Wilson, C. H. (Sheffield, Attercliffe) |
| Mander, Geoffrey le M. | Shakespeare, Geoffrey H. | Wilson, J. (Oldham) |
| Mansfield, W. | Shaw, R. Hon. Thomas (Preston) | Wilson, R. J. (Jarrow) |
| March, S. | Shepherd, Arthur Lewis | Winterton, G. E.(Leicester, Loughb'gh) |
| Markham, S. F. | Sherwood, G. H. | Wise, E. F. |
| Mathers, George | Shield, George William | Wood, Major McKenzie (Banff) |
| Matters, L. W. | Shiels, Dr. Drummond | Wright, W. (Rutherglen) |
| Middleton, G. | Shinwell, E. | Young, R. S. (Islington, North) |
| Millar, J. D. | Short, Alfred (Wednesbury) | |
| Mills, J. E. | Simmons, C. J. | TELLERS FOR THE AYES— |
| Montague, Frederick | Simon, E. D.(Manch'ter, Withington) | Mr. Allen Parkinson and Mr. T. |
| Morgan, Dr. H. B. | Simon, Rt. Hon. Sir John | Henderson. |
| Morley, Ralph | Sinclair, Sir A. (Caithness) |
| NOES. | ||
| Acland-Troyte, Lieut-Colonel | Buckingham, Sir H. | Croom-Johnson, R. P. |
| Ainsworth, Lieut.-Col. Charles | Bullock, Captain Malcolm | Culverwell, C. T. (Bristol, West) |
| Albery, Irving James | Cadogan, Major Hon. Edward | Cunliffe-Lister, Rt. Hon. Sir Philip |
| Alexander, Sir Wm. (Glasgow, Cent'l) | Carver, Major W. H. | Dalkeith, Earl of |
| Allen, W. E. D. (Belfast, W.) | Castlestewart, Earl of | Davies, Dr. Vernon |
| Amery, Rt. Hon. Leopold C. M. S. | Cautley, Sir Henry S. | Davies, Maj. Geo. F. (Somerset, Yeovil) |
| Ashley, Lt.-Col. Rt. Hon. Wilfrid W. | Cayzer, Sir C. (Chester, City) | Davison, Sir W. H. (Kensington, S.) |
| Atholl, Duchess of | Cayzer, Maj. Sir Herbt. R. (Prtsmth, S.) | Dixon, Captain Rt. Hon. Herbert |
| Baldwin, Rt. Hon. Stanley (Bewdley) | Cazalet, Captain Victor A. | Duckworth, G. A. V. |
| Beamish, Rear-Admiral T. P. H. | Cecil, Rt. Hon. Lord H. (Ox. Univ.) | Dugdale, Capt. T. L. |
| Beaumont, M. W. | Chamberlain, Rt. Hn. Sir J. A. (Birm., W.) | Edmondson, Major A. J. |
| Bellairs, Commander Cariyon | Chamberlain, Rt. Hon. N. (Edgbaston) | Erskine, Lord (Somerset, Weston-s.-M.) |
| Bennett, Sir Albert (Nottingham, C.) | Chapman, Sir S. | Falle, Sir Bertram G. |
| Betterton, Sir Henry B. | Christie, J. A. | Fermoy, Lord |
| Bevan, S. J. (Holborn) | Churchill, Rt. Hon. Winston Spencer | Fielden, E. B. |
| Bourne, Captain Robert Croft | Colfox, Major Wm. Phillips | Ford, Sir p. J. |
| Bowater, Col. Sir T. Vansittart | Conway, Sir W. Martin | Forestier-Walker, Sir L. |
| Bowyer, Captain Sir George E. W. | Courthope, Colonel Sir G. L. | Fremantle, Lieut.-Colonel Francis E. |
| Braithwaite, Major A. N. | Cranbourne, Viscount | Ganzonl, Sir John |
| Brass, Captain Sir William | Crichton-Stuart, Lord c. | Gibson, C. G. (Pudsey & Otley) |
| Brown, Col. D. C. (N'th'l'd., Hexham) | Croft, Brigadier-General Sir H. | Gilmour, Lt.-Col. Rt. Hon. Sir John |
| Buchan, John | Crookshank, Cpt. H. (Lindsey, Gainsbro) | Glyn, Major R. G. C. |
| Graham, Fergus (Cumberland, N.) | Mason, Colonel Glyn K. | Smith, Louis W. (Sheffield, Hallam) |
| Grenfell, Edward C. (City of London) | Meller, R. J. | Smith-Carington, Neville W. |
| Gretton, Colonel Rt. Hon. John | Mitchell, Sir W. Lane (Streatham) | Smithers, Waldron |
| Gritten, W. G. Howard | Mitchell-Thomson, Rt. Hon. Sir W. | Somerville, D. G. (Willesden, East) |
| Hacking, Rt. Hon. Douglas H. | Monsell, Eyres, Com. Rt. Hon. Sir B. | Spender-Clay, Colonel H. |
| Hall, Lieut.-Col. Sir F. (Dulwich) | Moore, Lieut.-Colonel T. C. R. (Ayr) | Stanley, Lord (Fylde) |
| Hamilton, Sir George (Ilford) | Morden, Col. W. Grant | Stewart, W. J. (Belfast, South) |
| Hannon, Patrick Joseph Henry | Morrison, Hugh (Wilts, Salisbury) | Stuart, J. C. (Moray and Nairn) |
| Hartington, Marquess of | Morrison, W. S. (Glos., Cirencester) | Sueter, Rear-Admiral M. F. |
| Haslam, Henry C. | Morrison-Bell, Sir Arthur Clive | Titchfleld, Major the Marquess of |
| Henderson, Capt. R. R. (Oxf'd, Henley) | Muirhead, J. A. | Todd, Capt. A. J. |
| Heneage, Lieut.-Colonel Arthur P. | Newton, Sir D. G. C. (Cambridge) | Train, J. |
| Herbert, S.(York, N. R., Scar.& Wh'by) | Nicholson, O. (Westminster) | Turton, Robert Hugh |
| Hudson, Capt. A. U. M. (Hackney, N.) | Ormsby-Gore, Rt. Hon. William | Vaughan-Morgan, Sir Kenyon |
| Illffe, Sir Edward M. | Penny, Sir George | Wallace, Capt. D. E. (Hornsey) |
| James, Lieut.-Colonel Hon. Cuthbert | Percy, Lord Eustace (Hastings) | Ward, Lt.-Col. A. L. (Kingston-on-Hull) |
| King, Commodore Rt. Hon. Henry D. | Peto, Sir Basil E. (Devon, Barnstaple) | Warrender, Sir Victor |
| Lane Fox, Rt. Hon. George R. | Power, Sir John Cecil | Waterhouse, Captain Charles |
| Law, Sir Alfred (Derby, High Peak) | Pownall, Sir Assheton | Wells, Sydney R. |
| Leigh, Sir John (Clapham) | Purbrick, R. | Williams, Com. C. (Devon, Torquay) |
| Leighton, Major B. E. P. | Ramsbotham, H. | Windsor-Clive, Lieut.-Colonel George |
| Lewis, Oswald (Colchester) | Rawson, Sir Cooper | Winterton, Rt. Hon. Earl |
| Llewellin, Major J. J. | Rodd, Rt. Hon. Sir James Rennell | Withers, Sir John James |
| Locker-Lampson, Rt. Hon. Godfrey | Ross, Major Ronald D. | Wolmer, Rt. Hon. Viscount |
| Locker-Lampson, Com. O.(Handsw'th) | Ruggles-Brise, Lieut.-Colonel E. A. | Wood, Rt. Hon. Sir Kingsley |
| Lymington, Viscount | Russell, Alexander West (Tynemouth) | Worthington-Evans, Rt. Hon. Sir L. |
| Macdonaid, Capt. P. D. (I. of W.) | Salmon, Major I. | Wright, Brig.-Gen. W. D. (Tavist'k) |
| Macquisten, F. A. | Sandeman, Sir N. Stewart | |
| Makins, Brigadier-General E. | Sassoon, Rt. Hon. Sir Philip A. G. D. | TELLERS FOR THE NOES.— |
| Margesson, Captain H. D. | Simms, Dr. John M. (Co. Down) | Major Sir George Hennessy and |
| Marjoribanks, E. C. | Sinclair, Col. T. (Queen's U., Belfast) | Sir Frederick Thomson. |
§
Ordered,
That the proceedings on any Private Business set down for consideration at half-past Seven of the clock this evening, by direction of the Chairman of Ways and Means, be exempted from the provisions of the Standing Order (Sittings of the House) and, notwithstanding anything in Standing Order No. 8, any such Private Business may he taken after half-past Nine of the clock."—[The Prime Minister.]