§ Colonel WEDGWOODI beg to move, in page 51, line 20, to leave out from the beginning to the word "be" in line 27.
During the passage of every long Bill the Government always make one particularly unimportant concession to the Opposition. The acceptance of one Amendment is de rigueur, and I offer them this one. No man who is not actuated by sheer partisan animosity could refuse this Amendment. Under this Clause the Representation of the People Act, 1918, is modified. Under that Act 138 people who reside in premises assessed at more than a certain amount have a right of vote in respect of that property and under this new scheme a few of them might lose that right. Therefore the Government have put in this very long Clause in order to retain those people on the list I am quite willing that they should be retained on the list, but I beg the right hon. Gentleman to consider whether he could not reduce the length of the Clause by at least one-half. Let it stand that in future, "the yearly value of the land or premises shall be taken to be the gross annual value of the land or premises for Income Tax purposes, any necessary apportionment of that value being made by the registration officer." If the right hon. Gentleman would take that as the definition for the purposes of the Representation of the People Act, he could cut out the whole of paragraph (a), the whole of paragraph (c) and the first two lines of paragraph (b). It would be a much shorter definition. The object would be achieved much more cheaply, and we should have applied to every case the simple principle of the gross annual value of the land or premises for Income Tax purposes. I do not believe there will be half-a-dozen people in the country affected by the definition so far as gaining or losing votes is concerned, but there will be an enormous number of unfortunate registration officers affected who will otherwise have to study as to whether a man comes under paragraphs (a), (b) or (c) of this Clause.
Mr. CHAMBERLAINThe right hon. and gallant Gentleman has given two reasons why I should accept the Amendment, I am afraid both are rather frivolous. The first is that it is the custom to make some sacrifice to the Opposition. In answer to that, we have over 50 Clauses yet to discuss, and we need not come to the sacrifice at this early stage. The second reason was that it would shorten the Clause, but shortening it would add very much to the expense of its administration. We have under the provisions dealing with the franchise provided that persons occupying property of a yearly value of £10 have a right to vote. Now we have abolished the gross value in some of these cases by the Valuation Act and we have to put something in its place, and we say, if the gross value appears in the list, it 139 is to remain. If it does not appear in the list we are to take the gross annual value for Income Tax purposes. There is a third case under paragraph (c) where the value does not appear in the valuation list in either case. You must have something in order to provide for them. You cannot leave out paragraph (c) altogether.
§ Colonel WEDGWOODBut if it does not occur under Schedule A for Income Tax purposes, is a man thereby entitled to a vote? I think that Schedule A covers everything.
Mr. CHAMBERLAINNo, we are not altering anything here at all in this Bill. We are trying as far as we can to preserve the status quo. We are not trying to alter anything, but where things have already been altered we are endeavouring to make the matter uniform, and paragraph (c) is designed to fill up a gap which otherwise would not be provided for. Therefore, I think the right hon. and gallant Gentleman will see that although this Clause may be long, it is no longer than is necessary to deal with the particular class of cases.
§ Colonel WEDGWOODI still do not see the point of the right hon. Gentleman. A man is getting two qualifications instead of one. Under Schedule A everything will be taken into consideration. A man who is not working his coal mine or his quarry is not the sort of citizen who should be given an extra vote. Anyway, I see no necessity for providing an additional property vote.
§ Mr. SKELTONIs it not the case that quarries are not taxed under annual value but on profits? If there are no profits there can be no annual value.
§ Colonel WEDGWOODWhether they are taxed on their profits or not, they come under Schedule A all the same.
§ Mr. SKELTONProfits and annual value are different.
§ Colonel WEDGWOODOf course they are.
§ Mr. SKELTONYes, but factories are not taxed under Schedule A.
§ Colonel WEDGWOODYou get all property under Schedule A; not only house property but factory property as well.
§ Mr. SKELTONI do not know whether the right hon. and gallant Gentleman is aware that quarries and mines although under Schedule A are not taxed on their value but, unlike other Schedule A subjects, are taxed on their profits.
§ Colonel WEDGWOODThis is a diversion. They have an annual value when they are used. They are taxed under Schedule A. It is only when they are idle that they are not. Therefore I do not see why we should stretch a point to provide votes for these people. If you are to have a property vote, have it on a simple, straightforward case applicable to everybody. The gross annual value has been made more or less cast-iron by nearly 100 years of experience, and it is always recognised as being the most just of all the valuations which are made.
§ Question put, "That the words proposed to be left out stand part of the Clause."
§ The Committee divided: Ayes, 203; Noes, 109.
143| Division No. 107.] | AYES. | [10.0 p.m. |
| Acland-Troyte, Lieut.-Colonel | Birchall, Major J. Dearman | Casaels, J. D. |
| Ainsworth, Lieut.-Col. Charles | Bird, E. R. (Yorks, W. R., Skipton) | Cautley, Sir Henry S. |
| Albery, Irving James | Bird, Sir R. B. (Wolverhampton, W.) | Cecil, Rt. Hon. Sir Evelyn (Aston) |
| Alexander, E. E. (Leyton) | Bowyer, Capt. G. E. W. | Chamberlain, Rt. Hon. N. (Ladywood) |
| Alexander, Sir Wm. (Glasgow, Cent'l) | Braithwaite, Major A. N. | Charteris, Brigadier-General J. |
| Allen, Sir J. Sandeman | Brass, Captain W. | Clayton, G. C. |
| Applin, Colonel R. V. K. | Bridgeman, Rt. Hon. William Clive | Cobb, Sir Cyril |
| Apsley, Lord | Briggs, J. Harold | Cockerill, Brig.-General Sir George |
| Astor, Maj. Hn. John J. (Kent, Dover) | Briscoe, Richard George | Cohen, Major J. Brunel |
| Atkinson, C. | Brooke, Brigadier-General C. R. I. | Convey, Sir W. Martin |
| Baldwin, Rt. Hon. Stanley | Brown, Col. O. C. (N'th'l'd., Hexham) | Cope, Major Sir William |
| Balniel, Lord | Brown, Brig.-Gen. H.C.(Berks, Newb'y) | Courthope, Colonel Sir G. L. |
| Banks, Sir Reginald Mitchell | Buckingham, Sir H. | Cowan, Sir Wm. Henry (Islington, N.) |
| Barnett, Major Sir Richard | Bullock, Captain M. | Crooke, J. Smedley (Deritend) |
| Bentinck, Lord Henry Cavendish- | Burman, J. B. | Crookshank, Col. C. de W. (Berwick) |
| Betterton, Henry B. | Campbell, E. T. | Crookshank, Cpt. H.(Lindsey, Gainsbro) |
| Bevan, S. J. | Carver, Major W. H. | Cunliffe, Sir Herbert |
| Dalkeith, Earl of | Hurd, Percy A. | Rhys, Hon. C. A. U. |
| Davies, Maj. Geo. F.(Somerst, Yeovll) | Hurst, Gerald B. | Richardson, Sir P. W. (Sur'y, Ch'ts'y) |
| Davies, Dr. Vernon | Iliffe, Sir Edward M. | Roberts, Sir Samuel (Hereford) |
| Davison, Sir W. H. (Kensington, S.( | Inskip, Sir Thomas Walker H. | Rodd, Rt. Hon. Sir James Rennell |
| Dawson, Sir Philip | Jackson, Sir H. (Wandsworth, Cen'l) | Ropner, Major L. |
| Drewe, C. | James, Lieut.-Colonel Hon. Cuthbert | Ruggles-Brise, Lieut.-Colonel E. A. |
| Eden, Captain Anthony | Jones, Sir G. W. H. (Stoke New'gton) | Russell, Alexander West (Tynemouth) |
| Edmondson, Major A. J. | Kennedy, A. R. (Preston) | Salmon, Major I. |
| Elliot, Major Walter E. | Kindersley, Major Guy M. | Sandeman, N. Stewart |
| Ellis, R. G. | Knox, Sir Alfred | Sanders, Sir Robert A. |
| Erskine, Lord (Somerset, Weston-S.-M.) | Lister, Cunliffe-, Rt. Hon. Sir Philip | Scott, Rt. Hon. Sir Leslie |
| Evans, Captain A. (Cardiff, South) | Little, Dr. E. Graham | Sheffield, Sir Berkeley |
| Everard, w. Lindsay | Loder, J. de V. | Sinclair, Col. T. (Queen's Univ., Belf'st.) |
| Fairfax, Captain J. G. | Long, Major Eric | Skelton, A. N. |
| Falle, Sir Bertram G. | Lucas-Tooth, Sir Hugh Vere | Smith, Louis W. (Sheffield, Hallam) |
| Fanshawe, Captain G. D. | Luce, Maj.-Gen. Sir Richard Harman | Smith, R. W. (Aberd'n & Kinc'dine, C.) |
| Fermoy, Lord | Lumley, L. R. | Smith-Carington, Neville W. |
| Fielden, E. B. | Macdonald, Capt. P. D. (I. of W.) | Somerville, A. A. (Windsor) |
| Foster, Sir Harry S. | Macdonald, R. (Glasgow, Cathcart) | Southby, Commander A. R. J. |
| Foxcroft, Captain C. T. | MacIntyre, Ian | Spender Clay, Colonel H. |
| Fremantle, Lieut.-Colonel Francis E. | McLean, Major A. | Stanley, Lord (Fylde) |
| Gadie, Lieut.-Col. Anthony | Macmillan, Captain H. | Stott, Lieut.-Colonel W. H. |
| Gates, Percy | Maitland, Sir Arthur D. Steel- | Stuart, Crichton., Lord C. |
| Gault, Lieut.-Col. Andrew Hamilton | Makins, Brigadier-General E. | Sueter, Rear-Admiral Murray Fraser |
| Gilmour, Lt.-Col. Rt. Hon. Sir John | Manningham-Buller, Sir Mervyn | Tasker, R. Inigo |
| Glyn, Major R. G. C. | Marriott, Sir J. A. R. | Thom, Lt.-Col. J. G. (Dumbarton) |
| Greene, W. P. Crawford | Mason, Colonel Glyn K. | Thompson, Luke (Sunderland) |
| Grenfell, Edward C. (City of London) | Meller, R. J. | Thomson, F. C. (Aberdeen, South) |
| Gunston, Captain D. W. | Mitchell, W. Foot (Saffron Walden) | Thomson, Rt. Hon. Sir W. Mitchell- |
| Hacking, Douglas H. | Monsell, Eyres, Com. Rt. Hon. B. M. | Tinne, J. A. |
| Hannon, Patrick Joseph Henry | Moore, Sir Newton J. | Titchfield, Major the Marquess of |
| Harland, A. | Morrison-Bell, Sir Arthur Clive | Turton, Sir Edmund Russborough |
| Harrison, G. J. C. | Nelson, Sir Frank | Vaughan-Morgan, Col. K. P. |
| Hartington, Marquess Of | Neville, Sir Reginald J. | Waddington, R. |
| Harvey, G. (Lambeth, Kennington) | Newman, Sir R. H. S. D. L. (Exeter) | Ward, Lt.-Col. A. L. (Kingston-on-Hull) |
| Harvey, Major S. E. (Devon, Totnes) | Oakley, T. | Warrender, Sir Victor |
| Headlam, Lieut.-Colonel C. M. | O'Connor, T. J. (Bedford, Luton) | Waterhouse, Captain Charles |
| Henderson, Capt R. R. (Oxf'd, Henley) | O'Neill, Major Rt. Hon. Hugh | Watson, Sir F. (Pudsey and Otley) |
| Henderson, Lieut.-Col. Sir Vivian | Oman, Sir Charles William C. | Watson, Rt. Hon. W. (Carlisle) |
| Heneage, Lieut.-Colonel Arthur P. | Ormsby-Gore, Rt. Hon. William | Williams, A. M. (Cornwall, Northern) |
| Henn, Sir Sydney H. | Penny, Frederick George | Williams, Com. C. (Devon, Torquay) |
| Hennessy, Major Sir G. R. J. | Percy, Lord Eustace (Hastings) | Williams, Herbert G. (Reading) |
| Hills, Major John Waller | Perring, Sir William George | Winby, Colonel L. P. |
| Hilton, Cecil | Peto, G. (Somerset, Frome) | Withers, John James |
| Hoare, Lt.-Col. Rt. Hon. Sir S. J. G. | Pilcher G. | Wolmer, Viscount |
| Hope, Capt. A. O. J. (Warw'k, Nun.) | Pilditch, Sir Philip | Womersley, W. J. |
| Hope, Sir Harry (Forfar) | Radford, E. A. | Wood, B. C. (Somerset, Bridgwater) |
| Hopkins, J. W. W. | Raine, Sir Walter | Wragg, Herbert |
| Hopkinson, A. (Lancaster, Mossley) | Ramsden, E. | |
| Hudson, Capt. A. U. M (Hackney, N.) | Renter, J. R. | TELLERS FOR THE AYES.— |
| Hudson, R. s. (Cumb'l'nd, whiteh'n) | Rentoul, G. S. | Captain Margesson and Captain |
| Wallace. | ||
| NOES. | ||
| Alexander, A. V. (Sheffield, Hillsbro') | Greenall, T. | Morris, R. H. |
| Baker, J. (Wolverhampton, Bilston) | Grenfell, D. R. (Glamorgan) | Morrison, R. C. (Tottenham, N.) |
| Barnes, A. | Griffith, F. Kingsley | Mosley, Sir Oswald |
| Batey, Joseph | Griffiths, T. (Monmouth, Pontypool) | Naylor, T. E. |
| Bellamy, A. | Grundy, T. W. | Owen, Major G. |
| Bowerman, Rt. Hon. Charles W. | Hamilton, Sir R. (Orkney & Shetland) | Palin, John Henry |
| Bromfield, William | Harris, Percy A. | Paling, W. |
| Bromley, J. | Hayday, Arthur | Parkinson, John Allen (Wigan) |
| Brown, Ernest (Leith) | Henderson, T. (Glasgow) | Ponsonby, Arthur |
| Buchanan, G. | Hirst, G. H. | Potts, John S. |
| Cape, Thomas | Hirst, W. (Bradford, South) | Richardson, R. (Houghton-le-Spring) |
| Charleton, H. C. | Hudson, J. H. (Huddersfield) | Riley, Ben |
| Cluse, W. S. | Jones, J. J. (West Ham. Silvertown) | Robinson, W. C. (Yorks, W.R., Elland) |
| Compton, Joseph | Jones, Morgan (Caerphilly) | Runciman, Hilda (Cornwall, St. Ives) |
| Connolly, M. | Jones, T. I. Mardy (Pontypridd) | Runciman, Rt. Hon. Walter |
| Cowan, D. M. (Scottish Universities) | Jones, W. N. (Carmarthen) | Saklatvala, Shapurji |
| Crawfurd, H. E. | Kelly, W. T. | Salter, Dr. Alfred |
| Dalton, Hugh | Kennedy, T. | Scurr, John |
| Davies, Ellis (Denbigh, Denbigh) | Lansbury, George | Sexton, James |
| Duncan, C. | Lawson, John James | Shaw, Rt. Hon. Thomas (Preston) |
| Edge, Sir William | Lee, F. | Shepherd, Arthur Lewis |
| England, Colonel A. | Lowth, T. | Shinwell, E. |
| Evans, Capt. Ernest (Welsh Univer.) | Lunn, William | Short, Alfred (Wednesbury) |
| Fenby, T. D. | MacDonald, Rt. Hon. J. R. (Aberavon) | Sinclair, Major Sir A. (Caithness) |
| Forrest, W. | Macdonald, Sir Murdoch (Inverness) | Smith, Ben (Bermondsey, Rotherhithe) |
| Garro-Jones, Captain G. M. | Mackinder, W. | Smith, Rennie (Penistone) |
| Gibbins, Joseph | Maclean, Neil (Glasgow, Govan) | Snowden, Rt. Hon. Philip |
| Gillett, George M. | Malone, C. L'Estrange (N'thampton) | Stamford, T. W. |
| Graham, Rt. Hon. Wm. (Edin., Cent.) | March, S. | Stephen, Campbell |
| Stewart, J. (St. Rollox) | Tomlinson, R. P. | Williams, C. P. (Denbigh, Wrexham) |
| Strauss, E. A. | Townend, A. E. | Williams, David (Swansea, East) |
| Sullivan, J. | Trevelyan, Rt. Hon. Sir Charles | Williams, Dr. J. H. (Llanelly) |
| Sutton, J. E. | Viant, S. P. | Williams, T. (York, Don Valley) |
| Thorne, G. R. (Wolverhampton, E.) | Webb, Rt. Hon. Sidney | Wilson, C. H. (Sheffield, Attercliffe) |
| Thorne, W. (Wast Ham, Plaistow) | Wedgwood, Rt. Hon. Josiah | Young, Robert (Lancaster, Newton) |
| Thurtle, Ernest | Wellock, Wilfred | |
| Tinker, John Joseph | Wheatley, Rt. Hon. J. | TELLERS FOR THE NOES.— |
| Mr. Charles Edwards and Mr. Hayes. |
Question put, and agreed to.