HC Deb 13 February 1929 vol 225 cc475-7
Mr. CHAMBERLAIN

I beg to move, in page 37, line 35, at the end, to insert the words: (4) This Section shall extend to the County of London.

Miss LAWRENCE

This whole Clause was closured in Committee. A little later on, by a side wind, some of us managed to draw attention to the fact that the County of London was excluded and would be unable to combine with other counties. I am very glad that what we were able to say brought the Minister partially to our view of the question, but I do not think the Amendment goes nearly far enough. I remember, before the Minister of Transport was able to obtain power over main roads, the reports from the Department with regard to the construction of one of the eastern roads of London and the enumeration of all the authorities whose consent had to be obtained. If you consider the position of the County of London with regard to town planning and the multitude of local authorities, some very small, which occupy part of the circumference of London, you will see that the County Council may find it very difficult to obtain consent. It might well be that a very good scheme of town planning, which might be agreed voluntarily by the County of London, by the Home Counties and by most of the district councils concerned, might be held up owing to the obstinacy of one, or perhaps two, councils. It is excessively desirable that not merely this Clause but all the other Clauses in the town planning section shall apply. What we want to hear from the Minister is an explanation of why the powers he holds in reserve over all other counties do not apply to the County of London. If there is a district which needs it, it is especially the County of London. Powers are possessed by the County Borough of Birmingham which are not nearly so much needed, because that borough has acquired powers over a very large hinterland. If ever there was a place which needs co-ordination it is the city in which we live and its suburbs. The Minister ought to give us some explanation why only the first Clause in the town planning section of the Bill and not the whole section is to be applied to London.

Mr. CHAMBERLAIN

On a point of Order. Should not the question the hon. Lady has addressed to me be raised on the next Amendment rather than on this? The next Amendment is directed to Clause 43, which says: This part of this Act shall not extend to the County of London, and I am proposing to move to add, "save as therein otherwise expressly provided."

Mr. DEPUTY-SPEAKER

My mind was working in that direction and was about to arrive at the same conclusion.

Mr. BENN

If the Minister decides to accede to the request of the hon. Lady, we may have to leave out Clause 43, in which case this Amendment will be quite unnecessary.

Mr. DEPUTY-SPEAKER

I do not think I can prejudice a discussion on the provision in this part of the Act being raised on these words in Clause 43.

Mr. BENN

If the Minister decides to apply this part of the Act to London, if we put this Amendment in now we shall not be able to go back and take it out; and the thing will be superfluous. In fact it will be absolutely misleading.

Mr. DEPUTY-SPEAKER

I cannot read the mind of the right hon. Gentleman, but the hon. Member and other critics of the Government will be able to express their views on the Amendment to Clause 43.

Mr. BENN

I quite agree, but does it not all show the importance of the Minister telling us what he really thinks on this Amendment instead of waiting.

Miss LAWRENCE

What opportunity should we have if we desired to omit Clause 43 altogether? We cannot do that on Report. Is not the Amendment on Clause 43 purely consequential en what we are doing now?

Mr. DEPUTY-SPEAKER

No, I hardly think it is. It is true that if Clause 43 were omitted altogether this Amendment would he superfluous, but it cannot he said that an Amendment on Clause 43 is consequential upon this Amendment.

Mr. BENN

Would it be in order to move later to leave out Clause 43?

Mr. DEPUTY-SPEAKER

The question can be debated on the Minister's Amendment to Clause 43.

Mr. BENN

On the Report stage Clauses are not put, and if you wish to leave out a Clause you must move to leave it out. The only remedy we have, in view of the ruling you have just given, would be to hand in an Amendment to leave out Clause 43 and, if that is a proper and orderly thing to do, no doubt my hon. Friend will do it, and on that the matter will be raised.

Mr. DEPUTY-SPEAKER

I think that will be the proper course to take.

Amendment agreed to.