§ 9. Lieut.-Commander KENWORTHYasked the President of the Board of Trade whether he is now in a position to make any further statement on the arrangements to be made to prevent overloading of ships; whether he is now in possession of the views of the Chamber of Shipping on the proposed extra safeguards; and what is the nature of these observations?
§ Sir P. CUNLIFFE-LISTERAs stated in reply to a question by the hon. Member for Dundee on 31st July last, a memorandum on overloading was prepared by the Board of Trade and forwarded to the shipowners' associations for consideration. A reply has now been received from the associations, dealing fully with the whole question. It shows a considerable measure of agreement with the Board's suggestions, and promises active co-operation and assistance. This reply is now under consideration, and arrangements will be made as soon as possible for a discussion with representatives of the associations, and thereafter definite proposals will be placed before the Merchant Shipping Advisory Committee.
§ Lieut.-Commander KENWORTHYCan the right hon. Gentleman assure the House that no safeguards which are considered necessary by the Board of Trade will be held up by a minority of shipowners?
Sir P.CUNLIFFE-LISTERNo, Sir; there is no foundation whatever for the 196 suggestion that the shipowners want to hold up anything that is necessary for the safety of ships, and the Board of Trade always refer these matters to the Merchant Shipping Advisory Committee whenever they consider that course is necessary.
§ Lieut.-Commander KENWORTHYI was referring to a minority of shipowners. Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that it is only a minority of shipowners who break the law by overloading?
§ Mr. MACLEANWill the right hon. Gentleman say whether the terms of the proposal now before the shipowners, if they accept them, will be laid before the House prior to any action being taken?
§ Sir P. CUNLIFFE-LISTERThe hon. Member 'appears to misunderstand the ordinary procedure. The regular procedure is that when the Board of Trade propose any Regulation, it is referred, first of all, to the Merchant Shipping Advisory Committee for consideration. That is a statutory Committee. After the views of the Committee have been considered, the Regulation is made in its final form.
§ Mr. W. THORNEDoes the right hon. Gentleman think that the Members of this House have not more common sense than the Board of Trade?
§ Sir P. CUNLIFFE-LISTERIt would be very invidious for me to answer that question. The practice which has been followed by previous Governments when dealing with these Regulations has been to have them considered very carefully by the Merchant Shipping Advisory Committee. I think it is desirable, if we make Regulations, that they should have the support of all sections of the shipping community.
§ Sir ROBERT THOMASIs it not a fact that no Regulations are made unless there is agreement beforehand with the shipowners and the Sailors' and Firemen's Union?
§ Sir P. CUNLIFFE-LISTERAll sections interested in British shipping are represented on the Advisory Committee, and that is why I think it is such a very valuable body to which to submit practical questions.
§ Mr. MACLEANIs the President of the Board of Trade aware that much dissatisfaction has been caused by the Board of Trade in previous years taking action without taking this House into consultation, and that that is the cause of all the dissatisfaction to-day?
§ Sir P. CUNLIFFE-LISTERNo, Sir. There is no foundation for that statement. The House has on many occasions approved of the procedure by which the Board of Trade, before making Regulations, consults the Advisory Committee.
§ Mr. W. THORNEIs it not a fact that when the right hon. Gentleman for Carnarvon Boroughs (Mr. Lloyd George) was President of the Board of Trade, he altered the load line, without consulting anyone?